Sunday School

[—Participant]

PopeBeanie wrote:

Intelligent life is of course less likely, although it’s also likely that it has had tens of millions of years more time to evolve than here.

Although, as a noteworthy phenomenon, intelligence has evolved in numerous branches of the animal kingdom that are relatively far apart. We have a number of examples in mammals, we have some examples of more complex problem solving in birds, but cephalopods present perhaps a more interesting case as invertebrates with a very different nervous system from our own.

Even trees and fungi have more complex behaviours and communication systems than many of us realized up until relatively recently, and while one wouldn’t describe them as intelligent, we can see how there may be some nascent signs of intelligent behaviour.

Point being, while humans may be the only observed species with our degree of consciousness and intelligence, it may be that intelligence is ultimately a trait that is selected for to a certain degree. That said, intelligence on the level of human intelligence is also selected against for various reasons. It may be there is simply a plateau that is commonly reached and intelligent species typically only hover around it with a certain amount of wiggle room.

Problematically, defining concepts such as ‘intelligence’ and ‘civilization’ without anthropic bias*. The idea that there are Star Trek-esque anthropomorphic civilizations out there in the universe seems unlikely. I don’t recall how that was explained in the Star Trek universe, but I do recall something that felt a bit ‘hand of god’ like in at least one episode.

Even so, if another sentient, and technologically advanced species out there exists, I really don’t know that we would have seen them by now. We don’t necessarily know what we are looking for. We don’t know how far along such a species would be in its development. We don’t know that such a species would explore outward. We don’t necessarily know what it would look like if they did. If they did and they were far more advanced than we are, we don’t know that they would want to make contact or be observed.

In shorter terms, I do agree that proving the negative—or eliminating possibility, rather—with our current level of knowledge is premature. A certain degree of agnosticism here is fine. In the meantime, we keep going with gathering the data that is within reach and see where it leads us.

*When I say ‘anthropic bias’ I am not using it in a technical sense as there are technical definitions in various disciplines.

[UnseenParticipant]

We have a distaste for Islam, but let’s keep it real folks. It was the needless establishment of Israel by outsiders that started the ball rolling downhill.

Palestinians Speak the Language of Violence Israel Taught Them

• This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  Unseen.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  Unseen.

[UnseenParticipant]

PopeBeanie wrote:

It’s just not possible in our current state of technology and knowledge to confidently make this “case”. Trying to prove a negative in such a large universe will be practically impossible for long time, while finding chemical signatures as likely evidence of exobiology is increasingly possible, e.g. with JWST. Intelligent life is of course less likely, although it’s also likely that it has had tens of millions of years more time to evolve than here.

No one I’m aware of maintains that it’s a fact that there’s no intelligent life in the universe…other than religious folk, of course.

It is a matter than can only be settled one way, which is that intelligent life exists. That will happen if such becomes evident. The opposite hypothesis will forever remain a conjecture, unless proven false. All I presented was reasons for thinking this might be or even most likely is the case.

If there is intelligent life in the universe, it may not take a form that can communicate beyond its planet. See my new post about how a technological intelligence requires a skeleton.

Octopuses are very bright, for example, but it’s hard to imagine them developing the technology to project their presence elsewhere if they can’t develop a technology, even if they became intelligent at the human level.

Their intelligence might take the form of high level philosophy or poetry. But how in the world could they do the experiments necessary to uncover the secrets of the natural sciences without the ability to perform experiments, many of which involve the application of heat or even open flames, for example? Their environment will keep them unable ever to have our sort of understanding and technology.

Check out my new topic and give your opinions there.

[_Robert_Participant]

Every time a Jew kills a Muslim or a Christian kills a Jew, and so forth…..their god, the son of El, known as Yahweh sits back and cracks a cold beer and a smile.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LTgv7taiVIk

The God of Israel Called YHWH Had a DAD – YouTube

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Fellow Unbelievers.

Evidently, YouTube thinks we can’t handle the truth, since it took down the video of the title being screamed by fanatical Palestinians amidst burning buildings.

The MSN-linked video of the woman recounting the defense of her family still works. In case you haven’t seen it, she didn’t make any apologies for not asking permission to survive and to help her family survive. That is how you do it, folks.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Addendum
• This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Addendum

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Robert,

This time it is Islam against Jews and a continuation of Islam’s Jihad against the rest of the world… including eventually us Unbelievers.

According to this story below from The Jewish Telegraphic Agency, this past Saturday was the worst single day of mass-murdering Jews since The Holocaust. It takes a lot for a Jewish person or agency to evoke that event in human history:

Was Hamas’ attack the bloodiest day for Jews since the Holocaust?
BY JTA STAFF
OCTOBER 8, 2023 5:45 PM

Was Hamas’ attack the bloodiest day for Jews since the Holocaust?

You may want to tip to the ground a little of your own favorite beverage in memory of the slaughtered. And be ready to do it more because the death toll is rising and this is just beginning.

Stay safe out there, Fellow Unbelievers!

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg,

Robert, everyone makes fun of Catholics until they need an exorcism.

Myself, I just consult the latest evidence-based First Aid for epileptic seizures and have the smartphone ready to call 911. No Crucifixes or “holy” water required and no need to worry about “bad touches” from Priests:

Seizure First Aid Resources–The Epilepsy Foundation
https://www.epilepsy.com/tools-resources/forms-resources/first-aid

[_Robert_Participant]

I guess Hamas didn’t plan much about a way to handle the $hit storm that was headed their way after their attack, except just to sacrifice the people that voted them in….peace be upon them and have power and water shutoff. Genius.

I saw all sorts of praying on twitter from both sides….hmm how does god select who to help here?  Tough call. He’s got Mohammad and Jesus and Moses up there with him. Maybe arm wrestle, darts?

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

We have a distaste for Islam, but let’s keep it real folks. It was the needless establishment of Israel by outsiders that started the ball rolling downhill.

Excuse me, but if it wasn’t for 3000+ years of Anti- Jewish hatred from Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Romans, Christians, Muslims, British and Continental Monarchists, Russian Czarists, Communists, and cumulating with the Nazis in The Holocaust, no one would have ever called for Zionism in the first place and Jews could live as equal citizens anywhere they either hold good title or pay rent.

The United States was the first nation in world history where Jews could live as equals before the law, but sadly even here, Anti-Jewish bigots still occasionally crawl out from under their rocks to leave their trail of slime, as did all of the Democratic Socialists of America who were apple-polishing and yucking it up about the attack of Hamas on Israel.

All the morally inverted dumbasses who equate Israel with Apartheid South Africa know nothing about either Apartheid South Africa or Israel.

Israel has more Arabs and Muslims as equal citizens now than when the nation started in 1948. If Israel is genocidal, they sure aren’t very good at it.

And those equal Arab and Muslim citizens hold positions in the Israeli Defence Force (IDF,) law enforcement, civil service, the judiciary, and the parliament known as the Knesset, as well as private sector industry such as SodaStream and Israel’s IT and pharmaceutical firms.

Israel is home to not only the three Abrahamic religions, but also the Ba’hai Universal House of Justice (no word on whether The Superfriends are there,) as well as people of all creeds and none.

As for the Palestinians, they could have had a homeland decades ago if their self-proclaimed “leaders” in Al-Fatah añd Hamas and their self-proclaimed Arab and Muslim “brothers” in oil-rich nations like Saudi Arabia and Iran didn’t hate Jews more than they love their own people and their own children.

Instead, all of these “leaders” and “brothers” use Palestinians as political footballs and keep them in misery and squalor and hide missiles and military weapons stashes among innocent civilians while fighting “The Zionist Entity,” so Innocents unavoidably get hurt and killed when fighting begins.

All of this could be over tomorrow if Arabs and Muslims gave up their religious and ethnic hatred of Jews and in particular gave up on Jihad to make the entire world into Dar Al-Islam, The House Of Islam.

[UnseenParticipant]

We treated South Africa’s apartheid government as a pariah, but we support Israel’s apartheid government. This is one of the injustices Palestinians rightly feel resentful of and one that Hamas uses to push its own agenda.

Yes, Israel has two separate legal systems, one for Jews and one for Palestinians. This is due to a combination of historical and political factors.

The legal system for Israeli Jews is based on Israeli civil law, which is a mixture of Ottoman law, British common law, and Jewish law. The legal system for Palestinian citizens of Israel is based on Israeli military law, which is much harsher and less protective of individual rights.

This whole conflict is based on the initial blunder of creating Israel by force in the first place.

It could be argued that Russia has a better claim on Ukraine than the victors of WW2 had on the land it handed over to the Jewish people, which now has its Palestinian “citizens” living under the administration of the Israeli military.

America’s lopsidedly pro-Israel policies are fired by Christian end-times extremists in the GOP and are backed by “The Family,” a largely evangelical Washington power broker*. This limits America’s ability to see this region clearly and act justly.

* A documentary on The Family:

[_Robert_Participant]

@Enco. All well and good, but remember King Faisal supported the Allies and chased the Ottoman Turks out of the region during WW1 with a promise the Arabs would have self-determination after the war. The Brits also appealed to wealthy American Jews to put pressure on Wilson to join in the war, with promise of the promised land. The Brits and French, in the Paris accords snubbed the Arabs, divided the area up for their imperial selves and also set in motion the Zionist plan for European Jews to take ever growing areas of Palestine. Arabs learned you can’t trust Christians.

[UnseenParticipant]

@ Robert

Exactly. See my post just before yours. We (the victors of WW2) are the ones ultimately to blame for the clusterfuck that the Middle East has become.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Robert,

I guess Hamas didn’t plan much about a way to handle the $hit storm that was headed their way after their attack, except just to sacrifice the people that voted them in….peace be upon them and have power and water shutoff. Genius.

Very true. When your biggest aspiration is for The Seven Heavens, little things like sanitation, personal hygiene, cooking, navigating around the crib, and reading at night are all trifles by comparison.

I saw all sorts of praying on twitter from both sides….hmm how does god select who to help here? Tough call. He’s got Mohammad and Jesus and Moses up there with him. Maybe arm wrestle, darts?

Decisions, decisions. ✡️✝️☪️🕉️☸️😁

One of the biggest absurdities I’ve seen online has been Fundamentalist Christians recounting Yahweh’s promise to Israel in Genesis 15: 18-21:

On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates— the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”

I’m thinking: “Why do you hate Israel so much?”

Take it from an American, the last thing Israel needs is more and bigger borders. You have to patrol the damn things, you have to have the border guards and military and infrastructure to do it. They are just more trouble the bigger they get! Even the present borders of Israel fell open when the Mossad and the IDF went complacent!

Nations and other geopolitical entities can still be prosperous even if geophysically small, as Taiwan, South Korea, and Hong Kong attest.

We could have still been the greatest nation on Earth with just 13 States as long as the States were politically and economically free and we could trade with the Indigenous tribes for resources rather than shed blood and treasure for Manifest Destiny.

Anyway, back to waiting and seeing. It still isn’t good.

[UnseenParticipant]

Israeli apartheid:

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Robert,

@Enco. All well and good, but remember King Faisal supported the Allies and chased the Ottoman Turks out of the region during WW1 with a promise the Arabs would have self-determination after the war. The Brits also appealed to wealthy American Jews to put pressure on Wilson to join in the war, with promise of the promised land. The Brits and French, in the Paris accords snubbed the Arabs, divided the area up for their imperial selves and also set in motion the Zionist plan for European Jews to take ever growing areas of Palestine. Arabs learned you can’t trust Christians.

There is truth in that. The British Empire through T.E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) was writing a whole lot of metaphorical and literal checks that their body politic couldn’t cash.

Even so, though, both Jews and Arabs had a historical presence in what is now called Israel for over 3000 years. According to John McCarthy’s documentary It Ain’t Necessarily So, the people called Israelites were actually Caananites who came, not from captivity in Egypt, but from another region of Canaan.

Also interesting: Of all the thousands of writings the Egyptians had on papyrus, on tablets, on statues, on walls, and on steles, Archeologists have only found one stele, The Merneptah Stele, that referred to Israelites, and on it, Pharaoh Merneptah claimed he destroyed the Israelites in Caanan around 1208 B.C.E.

This, of course, contradicts and is exactly the opposite of what The Holy Bible says about the existence of the Israelites and it makes the biblical claim that the Israelites were slaves in Egypt highly unlikely, since there would have been many more written references to Israelites otherwise.

Anywho, if the Israelites were never taken captive to Egypt, this also means they never left where they were, so they have as much historical claim to the land as anyone else who has been there, which says both everything and nothing.

The never-ending struggle in that part of the world is about a whole lot more than just real estate and won’t be solved by a mere title search.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Correction: 3000, Sir

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