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The ultimate decision about what is accepted as right and wrong will be made not by individual human wisdom but by the disappearance of the groups that have adhered to the “wrong” beliefs.

–F.A. Hayek

Unseen wrote:
Mathematics may have originally grown out of a need to solve real world problems in physical reality, it has gone way beyond that. One obvious example is prime numbers and another is imaginary numbers.

My point is that in the same way that mathematics has grown way beyond its beginnings, morality is the response of normative…[Read more]

Unseen wrote:
Mathematics may have originally grown out of a need to solve real world problems in physical reality, it has gone way beyond that. One obvious example is prime numbers and another is imaginary numbers.

But 97 rocks can never be divided into groups of the same size, because 97 is a prime number.  Similarly, even imaginary numbers…[Read more]

Unseen wrote:

_Robert_ wrote:
OK, so now absolute morality is just values “one holds dear”. So, if one culture holds sex with minors in high regard, and another will lock you away in jail, they are both following absolute morality. Got it. Yeah, see I don’t buy that.

When religious folk talk about absolutes they are talking about specific laws…

[Read more]

_Robert_ wrote:
OK, so now absolute morality is just values “one holds dear”. So, if one culture holds sex with minors in high regard, and another will lock you away in jail, they are both following absolute morality. Got it. Yeah, see I don’t buy that.

When religious folk talk about absolutes they are talking about specific laws set down by th…

[Read more]

Simon Paynton wrote:

Unseen wrote:
Facts are in one realm and values are in another one and never the twain shall meet because facts are value neutral

You’re right, I’m being a bit glib and disingenuous. It’s true, they’re different realms, and we don’t treat them the same when making judgments of what to do. We take both into account. In a way,…

[Read more]

_Robert_ wrote:
absolute morality

There’s “absolute morality” – whatever that is – nobody can say – and “moral absolutes”, which are the strict rules necessary for ethical behaviour.

@unseen – if moral values are absolutes, then what do we do when two or more values apply?  Which one is “absolutely” correct overall?  Are the others wrong?  Do…[Read more]

OK, so now absolute morality is just values “one holds dear”. So, if one culture holds sex with minors in high regard, and another will lock you away in jail, they are both following absolute morality. Got it.

Yeah, see I don’t buy that. When religious folk talk about absolutes they are talking about specific laws set down by the creator of the…[Read more]

Unseen wrote:
Facts are in one realm and values are in another one and never the twain shall meet because facts are value neutral

You’re right, I’m being a bit glib and disingenuous.  It’s true, they’re different realms, and we don’t treat them the same when making judgments of what to do.  We take both into account.

In a way, moral values are j…[Read more]

_Robert_ wrote:
So there are really no “absolutes”. “Killing is wrong” is  meaningless.

No phrase I can understand is literally “meaningless.”

There are an infinite number of “killings” possible. And when you say “If one person feels” as in your fetus example, well that’s not exactly an absolute.

When someone expresses a feeling in a moral…[Read more]