Are there dangerous ideas?

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

@jakelafort – for some reason that reminded me of a quote by Timothy Leary –

“LSD is a psychedelic drug which occasionally causes psychotic behavior in people who have NOT taken it.”

About the same time (30 years ago) a neighbor called to my house (5 bedrooms) – which he once called “a den of iniquity” because I kept it as an open house and usually had 5 or 6 “guests” living with me. He was an ultra Catholic type, retired from the bank and bored silly with himself. He asked me, with a smug look on his face, if I would be interested in attending a “community drug awareness meeting” in a local hotel. He was one of the organizers and wanted it to be a success. I said I would and was looking forward to it.

He was taken aback by this and asked why I was so enthusiastic about going. I said, “I am going on the off chance you might have some information on drugs I have yet to experience”. I still remember the look of disgust and horror on his face. “Will there be sandwiches”? I asked, as if nothing had happened.

 

[—]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Fellow Unbelievers, The idea of viruses of the mind keeps coming up here. Very well, to extend that analogy, the way a single human body fights viruses is via antibodies, and the way to prime the antibodies is through limited, controlled exposure to the virus (i.e. either variolation or vaccination.) The way a group of human bodies fights the spread of viruses is through herd immunity. In herd immunity, the greater the number of people wbo are innoculated against the virus, the lesser the spread and the lesser the ill effects of infection when it does occur. If “hate speech” is banned, individuals and groups and societies have no way to learn what hate really means and are in no position to fight it when it happens. In other words, with a ban on “hate speech,” they have no herd immunity.

Your own analogy contradicts your conclusion. Hate speech legislation doesn’t wipe ideas off the off the face of the planet, neither is it intended to. In analogous terms, it recognizes that certain strains of ideas are pathological.

Inoculation is a controlled process allowing us to develop antibodies vastly different from simply letting people be infected with the virus out in the wild. This state with no hate speech legislation exists for the sake of building immunity in the population is closer to a pox party than vaccination.

[jakelafort]

Reg, that thar was good.. a chuckle turned into a laugh.

[jakelafort]

The longevity of mind viruses is astonishing.

For instance it was the Jews that were blamed for the horrifying plague that began in 1348. The most virulent hatred emanated from the ignorant and illiterate peasants. They had been fed for centuries how the Jews had killed Christ. They had believed those and other lies.

The authorities tried Jews for various crimes in which they were alleged to have poisoned the wells. Through torture confessions were elicited. The violence against Jews was outstanding and widespread. Jews were also money lenders so there were Princes and rulers who eliminated their debts by having/allowing the crowds to murder the Jews. Some Jews committed suicide, sometimes mass suicides to avoid being torn to pieces by the crowds. Jews were murdered throughout Spain, Europe and eastern Europe. It seems what became Germany centuries later was the most dangerous area for Jews. But an interesting aspect of this phenomenon is how in the areas around the Alps where the onset of the plague came later the Jews were murdered in advance. Those lies that were spread worked their ugly magic. It is also instructive that in Germany in the 19th century (Germany became a nation in 1871) Jews just wanted to assimilate. But by the time Hitler came to power all of those centuries of mind virus hatred came to the surface. In fact the Hitler Youth was at its inception on a voluntary basis. Nearly all German children joined. The virus was as always puissant and deadly.

Those lies and others such as appeared in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion were instrumental in pogroms, discrimination, and ultimately the Holocaust. It is a different story but it is probably the same phenomenon that is responsible for so much harm done to gays and to Blacks.

Even the most educated during the pre-civil war were not immune to the virulent anti-Black lies. Yes there were some decent abolitionists but plenty of intellectuals who should have known better defended slavery. Sometimes they dehumanized Blacks and sometimes they characterized the issue of slavery as one of State’s rights. But the point is that unfortunately we are not much better than baboons with fancy clothes and technology. Oh, and same thing happened with poor whites as happened in the 14th century to Jews…the poorest were the most zealous in hunting down and being violent with escaped slaves. Part of the enmity of poor whites toward Black slaves was probably socioeconomic in wanting to preserve their place in the hierarchy but it was fueled by mind virus hatred.

That so many should be so strong on the idea of not protecting the marginalized groups is pathetic. It is not like anyone is advocating a sterilization of society. Nobody is going to jail for just calling out another a Nigger, Kike or faggot. The first amendment argument is specious. There is neither evidence nor reason to think such laws will have a chilling effect on other speech. I am waiting for a good argument against hate speech legislation.

[Unseen]

Davis wrote:

That’s kind of a backdoor argumenum ad populum, though, isn’t it?

No. It shows that an enlightened culture that takes protecting marginalised people seriously can face a difficult issue and solve it without resorting to fear of slippery slopes or the hassle and tiny inconvenience of slightly adjusting their way of doing things…without kicking up a ridiculous fuss over something that should be a no brainer.

Davis, there are many sides to most issues and more than one has at least some basis in facts and/or logic.

Why can’t an enlightened culture understand that if people solve their issues with the help of government, then they down own the victory, the government does. According to this view, the government infantilizes people by “protecting” them from feeling bad. Haven’t we infantilized women along the way by “protecting” them? We used this protection thing to tell ourselves that women weren’t full adults and therefor shouldn’t be able to own property or vote, for example.

[Davis]

the government infantilizes people by “protecting” them from feeling bad

If you think that the consequences of hate speech are “simply feeling bad” then you are more ignorant than I ever thought you could be.

[Unseen]

Davis wrote:

the government infantilizes people by “protecting” them from feeling bad

If you think that the consequences of hate speech are “simply feeling bad” then you are more ignorant than I ever thought you could be.

Careful, Davis, you may trigger me.

[TheEncogitationer]

Reg,

Your story was hilarious and most fitting.

The only way anyone knows what is good or bad for us and in what dosage and in what context is that…at some point in our time on Earth…somebody experimented with it and somebody–maybe somebody else–spread the word.🤪🗣🗣🗣

By making drugs per se and drug-talk taboo, the Global “War On Drugs” has disabled the very process of free inquiry and free expression that makes sane drug information and drug decisions possible!

The animated feature The Easter Bunny is Coming to Town actually had a great song on the subject from (15:45-18:12):

The Easter Bunny Is Coming To Town 

“Someone’s got to be first./  All things got to be faced./  Someone’s got to brave the worst./  Someone’s got to take a taste!”

(The story has reference to Noah’s Ark, but no Jesus or Crucifixion.  It’s more about The Easter Bunny as an innovator, free-market smuggler, and opener of repressive societies. 🐰🏰)

And so it goes with any subject of study or endeavor.

 

 

[TheEncogitationer]

Jake,

I’ve taken college courses on Judaism and The History of Africa, I’ve watched Roots and Holocaust footage in Grade School, plus I have done endless extracurricular study on the horrors of the 20th Century and all of human history since I got my first set of encyclopedias in 2nd Grade…all without intellectual gatekeepers to tell me how wrong man’s inhumanity to man is. None of the aforementioned you mentioned is news to me…and as horrible as the subject matter was, I’m glad no one kept me from it like a “Bubble Boy” with no immune system.

[Unseen]

Why are so many antisemites Christian? After all, he was a Jewish rabbi and his Christian followers rule the world.

[jakelafort]

Encogitationer, that is all you got from what i wrote. It was intended to illustrate the importance of hate speech legislation. Mind viruses of hatred are as persistent as religious mind viruses and have recrudescence intermittently. Nobody is trying to insulate anyone from the history of horrors. I would be dead set against whitewashing history. Where and when that happens a true first amendment issue is invoked. Not the BS that hate speech targets. Hate speech is a significant issue right now. We are in a new age of social media in which impressionable minds will be infected permanently and do irreparable harm.

[jakelafort]

Unseen you have asked an old question that a number of authors have tackled including Twain. Off the top of my head the consensus is as follows. Christianity inculcated through endless repetition that their Christian hero, one Jesus Christ, was murdered by the Jews. I think this explanation is beyond question at least a factor in the long history of persecution of jews by christians. Think of the degree of hero worship associated with JC. Even some nonchristians have a fetish that is not commensurate with the written word attributed to him.

Another factor often cited is that Jews throughout their diaspora have outperformed the competition intellectually and economically. In some places and in some locales the discrimination was so bad that was not necessarily the case. In Nazi Germany that was certainly a factor. There was a brief period before the holocaust in which Jews were fairly assimilated and were killing it. Jewish culture tends to value education greatly. It is as far as i can ascertain fairly universal. So that creates jealousy and resentment in Christians.

But here is something you may not read in any book or essay. You nailed it Unseen…it is like wtf when he was a jew himself? It is because Jews rejected the Jew that Christians have elevated as their center piece. If Jews think of him as a rabble rouser who was one of many and therefore nuthin special then they have in effect made a cartoon of the prophet Mohammed. It is a state of things that is intolerable among Christians.

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

@TheEncogitationer, you might like the Family Guy song.

[TheEncogitationer]

Reg,

Man, I really need to play catch-up on that show.  It never fails to get a laugh from me.  😁

Brian and Stewey could have given “The Son of Sam” a much-needed correction.

Brian: “Psst!  Hey, Davey!  There is no Anti-Christ or Christ either!”

Stewey: “In fact, we aren’t real, either!  We’re all just brain farts of Seth McFarland!”

[TheEncogitationer]

Jake,

Here’s how to address the problem of Anti-Jewish hatred by Christians:

Just point out Contradictions #440 and #442 on the Web Site 1001 Bible Contradictions:

http://1001biblecontradictions.com/II2c%20-%20Jesus%20%5B434-464%5D.html

Even assuming the historicity of Jesus, The Holy Bible doesn’t say without being contrary and contradictory who killed Jesus.

One verse says the Jews, one says the Priests of the Sanhedrin, one says the Princes of the World, one says the Romans, and one says Jesus (supposedly God Incarnate) was sent by God to effectively commit suicide.  (Back in the day, would they call it “suicide by Centurian?”)

The nursery rhyme “Who Killed Cock Robin?” makes more sense than the story of The Crucifixion.

And as the rest of the Web Site shows, there are even more contradictions in the story of Jesus’ death (not to mention the very self-contradictory idea of Deicide.)

Pointing all this out would defuse Anti-Jewish Christians as well as encourage even further questioning of Biblical “inerrancy.”  No trick laws required, just pass on some basic critical thinking and reading.

[Author]

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