I never existed, and neither did you, or the entire cosmos, for that matter

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This topic contains 21 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 4 days, 5 hours ago.

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  • #24979

    Unseen
    Participant

    Due to cosmic inflation, in 5 billion years, it’s estimated, the universe will come to an end, and when that happens, time will come to an end as will any evidence I, you, or that any “thing” (as we think of things) ever existed. The acts and accomplishments of the world’s Einsteins, Hitlers, Newtons, Ghandis, Stalins, and Shakespeares will effectively have never existed because there will no longer be any tracks or even a vapor trail they might have left behind. There will be a complete and total equivalence, then, between existence and never having existed.

    #24980

    Oh, 5 billion years. I first read it as 5 million years. Phew 🙂

    I met a traveller from an antique land,
    Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
    Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
    Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
    And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
    Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
    Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
    The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
    And on the pedestal, these words appear:
    My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
    Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
    Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
    Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
    The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

     

    #24984

    Noel
    Participant

    First time I read this, the 5 or 6 billion years, was in the book “Why nothing can travel faster than the speed of light “. Filled me with such sadness. Since all energy in the cosmos would be consumed and everything blinks out there is going to be darkness and nothing. Which makes sense. Damn I love science. Almost as much as those zany evangelicals love them some Jesus.

    #24987

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    The ephemerality and fleetingness of life is kind of sad, I agree.  That’s what Buddhism talks about in the “suffering of impermanence” (I think).  This pushes us into the atheist position – “seize the moment”, “enjoy the moment”.

    #25026

    Strega
    Moderator

    5 Billion years.  Isn’t it funny that we look to measure the lifetime of the universe, based on the number of times an insignificant star in an outer spiral arm has been circumnavigated by the third of eight planets in its orbit?

    Reg, I loved Ozymandias from the first time I read it.

     

    #25030

    Noel
    Participant

    LoL Strega: I’m so screwed up now! Trying to wrap my noggin around time as a measure of, well, time. If our rotation slows down it throws that whole equation off. Would it take a longer amount of time for the universe to fizzle out? If our rotation sped up and a day was now 22 hours would it change anything?

    I’ve always felt that we were insignificant in the whole scheme of things. I feel that way about of lot of things. I feel that way about my country; like when someone say’s, “We’re the greatest!”, I’m like “Really?”. Cause London and Tokyo don’t have better mass transit than we do? (They do).

    #25034

    Unseen
    Participant

    I’ve always felt that we were insignificant in the whole scheme of things.

    But there is no “whole scheme of things” that can overcome the fact that, in a sense, it will have never existed.

    #25092

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    But there is no “whole scheme of things” that can overcome the fact that, in a sense, it will have never existed.

    To be fair, we’re presuming we know for a fact that some version of our history will not be somehow preserved elsewhere, or that no intelligent agent will exist to care about it. Otherwise, when genuinely trying to scientifically describe “reality” in terms that are potentially-eternally, empirically accurate, should we not continue to assume that our personal experience and opinions are less relevant and meaningful than reality itself?

    I realize of course that that word “meaningful” invokes human invention and interpretation, but if we require perfection in language, we might as well debate the whole proposition, including absolute and perfect definitions of words like never, exist, or “entire cosmos“. Point is, what happens in the universe (from any outsider’s perspective who could see into this universe) will have really “happened”, whether we personally disappear, or not.

    It’s all semantics.

    #25137

    Dennis
    Participant

    There’s a certain pathos to your statement.

    #25142

    Unseen
    Participant

    It’s all semantics.

    Which ultimately will be irrelevant, because it will have never existed as well.

    #25146

    Yes, all information will eventually be lost….or will it?

    I think it will as there will no longer be any mass\energy left…..except maybe a Jehovah Wittiness arguing about the second law 🙂

    #25151

    Davis
    Participant

    Perhaps one’s own existence is lost in ontological arguments. Perhaps I don’t exist as I think I do, or that somehow I’m an individual entity that had its own existence. Perhaps we are part of a larger existence or perhaps someones dream or simulation or a glich or any other explanation. While it’s true that with the end of the universe history of what happened in the universe will be gone. But within that universe you can argue that we existed in some way even if nobody can confirm that. And from outside of the universe (or non-existence if things are done once our universe is done) it’s still the case that some phenomena existed. Slightly similar to Descartes’s “I think therefore I am”. While we cannot be sure I am who I think I am or the universe is as we think the universe is, you can be totally sure that some phenomena is going on. How could there be no phenomena happening if we are here right now talking about the universe? It may not be that we are actually arguing about it the way we think but something is happening. And while that phenomena may disappear, I don’t see how that fatally erases that some phenomena happened even if record keeping as we know it disappears.

    #25153

    Unseen
    Participant

    I’m comforted concerning my death that not only am I going to go “the way of all flesh,” but the way of everything, it turns out. I not only won’t be getting a worse deal than some other person but I won’t be getting a better deal than the entire universe itself.

    #25159

    Noel
    Participant

    As we hurtle millions of miles an hour on an insignificant planet, on a galaxy that is located in, what most would say, is the arm pit of the universe.

    I would have loved to travel near the speed of light visiting long lost relatives on alpha Centauri.

    i wonder if on that last day, when the oceans evaporate and man is down to several hundred individuals, will there be a band playing like on the Titanic.

    #25162

    _Robert_
    Participant

    will there be a band playing like on the Titanic.

    The last few humans will be a tattered looking lot for sure….I feel sorry for them already 😉

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