I'm getting sick of hearing about #metoo

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This topic contains 103 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Simon Paynton 2 years, 8 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 104 total)
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  • #6980

    jakelafort
    Participant

    But Bellen,  metoo is an organic response to the way too close to universal experiences of women.  It is not some academic or intellectual theory that ought to be critiqued in that way.  Rape is a cross-cultural reality. Sexual misconduct, it’s little brother, is endemic in our culture.

    Our closest relatives the chimps are rapists.  So biology is the cause.  Cultures are either accepting of it or not.  Exposing it or any form of exploitation is a first step towards curbing it.  That is exactly what is happening.  Promises? What promises? The closest thing to a promise is the safety in numbers sentiment or mentality that makes it safe to report the misconduct.  That is not a lot of nothing.

    THAT IS HIGHLY FUCKING SIGNIFICANT.

    #6981

    .
    Spectator

    @jakelafort

    The closest thing to a promise is the safety in numbers sentiment or mentality that makes it safe to report the misconduct. That is not a lot of nothing.

    But it’s still not safe Jake. Not for people in the ghetto. Making a report to the media and making a report to the police are two completely different things. Women have been encouraged to make reports to police in the United States when they are sexually assaulted or abused for many years. But the way the POLICE respond to that varies based on where you live and the circumstances surrounding the rape. The way it is handled is very inconsistent. But there is one statistic that matters. How many men are actually imprisoned for their violence. It’s like 1%. These women who are alleging to have been victims have not proven it in a court of law. So it’s really hearsay. The standards for conviction is extremely high. The stars have to align for there to be a conviction.

    Talking rumor bullshit really isn’t productive. I’ll find it a meaningful movement when I start to see a change in the way we talk about sexual violence to begin with. Start to speak honesty instead of having an illusion of safety that doesn’t exist.

    #6983

    Tom Sarbeck
    Participant

    Hey folks, and Bellen, do a search on ”why don’t you, yes but” and see the game you’re playing.

    Bellen wins, and winning is fun so she won’t quit.

    You all lose, so you’ll have to quit.

    How to quit? Stop making suggestions.

    Instead, ask Bellen to tell you how she will fix her problem. She might not know so you might have to insist.

    How do I know? I once played it. I saw it described in Eric Berne’s book.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by  Tom Sarbeck.
    #6986

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    @tomsarbeck – I think you might be looking in a mirror.

    #6988

    @tom, it looks like an interesting book, assuming this is the one you were referencing but it is out-dated and maybe too simplistic. I think it was one of the original self help books but it is no longer very popular.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by  Reg the Fronkey Farmer. Reason: sentence cut off due to "android" glitch
    #6989

    .
    Spectator

    Oh my god really?

    #6990

    .
    Spectator

    I’m telling it real. You want to try to say I’m playing games go ahead. That’s cool.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by  ..
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by  ..
    #6993

    I don’t think anyone was implying you are playing a “game”. Even the book does not imply “game” as being something frivolous. This is a discussion forum, not a competition for winners.

    #6995

    .
    Spectator

    Yeah @tom was implying that I was playing games

    #6996

    Daniel W.
    Participant

    I appreciate that this discussion is here.  I think a good skeptic will try to analyse all sides of a concept.  Human behavior is such that there will be abuses on #metoo, some overreach, some aspects of witch hunt or manipulation, and a backlash.  I really dont know if, in the long run, durable meaningful changes will happen.  It’s interesting to watch.    Sexuality has a special place in our psyche.  It seems like bad and sometimes stupid sexual comments or behavior comes off as worse than exclusive race/gender/ personal situation cliques and in-groups, stealing credit from others, character assassination, lies, and set-ups etc which are just “getting ahead”.  As for Hollywood, Americans knew about the casting couch, probably, 80 years ago.  Is it disingenuous to suddenly act like “I’m shocked!  Just shocked!” in 2018?  Kardashians certainly used their sexuality to get rich.   There, it seems OK.  Maybe Im wrong, and they are just really talented, classy, artistic folks.

    #6997

    .
    Spectator

    @danielw

    As for Hollywood, Americans knew about the casting couch, probably, 80 years ago. Is it disingenuous to suddenly act like “I’m shocked! Just shocked!” in 2018?

    “He made a pass at me 20 years ago. But I still went along with it and sucked his dick because I wanted the part. I got it and made my millions. Now put my face on blast as a victim and a step forward. I’m an example that shows how horrible men are towards women. I was a victim. And by me speaking out about it, things are CHANGING!… SEE? my picture is all over the news so that’s proof!!”

    #6998

    The Kardashians exploiting the media to make money is not the same thing as the Kardashians being exploited. In one scenario they are empowered and in control. In the other they are being abused and humiliated. I could be wrong too as I don’t know much about them. That is, I have no interest in keeping up with them, it is just difficult not to keep hearing about them from their own self publicity machinery that they seem to own.

    #7000

    .
    Spectator

    Just on CNN today

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/29/media/media-men-accused-of-sexual-misconduct/index.html

    It doesn’t seem fair to me that these men are losing their jobs and status and reputation over allegations. We’re not talking the standard that we hold the courts to which is innocent until proven guilty. I can just about guarantee you these men probably are guilty. But so are hundreds or thousands if not millions of others who aren’t being called out  in Hollywood. So we target just five or six high-profile men, take them down and then what? Did we actually change something? Do things actually get better for normal people? No, all you did was fire a few assholes.

    #7001

    .
    Spectator

    There’s three sides to every story, my side your side and the truth. These women are accusing men of sexual misconduct but they’re not discussing or even admitting but they might have played a role in it. I’m sure some of them were helpless victims, but I’m also sure that a lot of them weren’t. If it really meant that much to them at the time it should have been addressed then. But they went along with it and worked with these men on multiple occasions, and despite the Hollywood rumors, nobody said anything then. So why bring it up now? The thing that makes me mad about it is that the real issues are getting ignored. The real changes that need to happen are still not being made. So to me it is infuriating. Because I think it’s taking away from the real issues that need to happen. It gives us the illusion that something is actually being done about it when it’s not.

    To be completely honest I don’t really care anymore. I’ve been sexually abused so much that it doesn’t really matter if it ever happens again. It really doesn’t matter. It actually feels normal. There is nothing that could ever happen to me that hasn’t already been done. But as a mother Raising a Son, I don’t want him to grow up in a world where a woman can just accuse him of something and he loses his entire life and reputation. Over stupid allegations that may or may not be real. Where she may or may not actually have played a role in her own situation. If we fast forward 40 years from now, I don’t want the me-too movement to become the gold standard for how we deal with assholes. The criminal justice system is where that belongs and that’s where it needs to stay. And that’s where the reform needs to happen so that all women regardless of their socioeconomic status can have Justice when it’s truly warranted.

    #7002

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I know someone who used to be into the theatre and drama when she was around 12 years old, at school.  She says it was normal and routine for the male drama teachers to try and touch up the young girls, and then the rest.  They didn’t mess with my friend, because she was wise to it.  But many 12 year olds are naïve and not equipped to fight back.

    If an allegation is false, then believe me, that’s rather obvious, soon.

    I still think all this #metoo makes a good “gateway” for bringing up more serious issues.  I deny that the knowledge was universal and widespread before this.

    As for what can be done – there are probably all kinds of things, and we don’t know what they look like yet.

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