It's not Russia, it's Putin

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This topic contains 149 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  TheEncogitationer 41 minutes ago.

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  • #44575

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    Both Russia and Ukraine have the same problem: Their crack forces are mostly dead or injured and they are forced to recruit or draft amateurs and quickly train them how to fight or in the Case of Russia to use mercenaries or troops from allies like the Chechens. […]

    Now, Ukraine’s recent gains almost seem too easy. One can’t completely rule out a Russian trap where Ukraine moves in ahead of its supply lines and best offensive weapons and Russian troops move in to surround them and cut their supply lines.

    I’ve not seen stories on the Ukrainians losing competence, but I’ve seen stories of people from other countries coming to join their battle, for ideological reasons. Western weaponry is still making decisive differences, and the Russians left so quickly from eastern Ukraine that they left everything behind, even their wounded.

    I strongly suspect that there was no plan for this by Putin or the Russian troops, and I don’t think it will be long before we learn if the Ukrainians have over-extended their reach. In any case, short term wins or losses aside, we might not even know how this war will end or keep going, until after winter. I’m crossing my fingers that Putin’s lies will keep growing as a topic in Russia, and he’ll eventually be ousted because of his unexpectedly costly failures. And as far as who would replace him, would they really be any more competent in executing the war, expanding empire, and would they instantly have sufficient powers to run everything smoothly? I have no idea, so I suppose it’s possible.

    Maybe Russia should have put their best software people on developing weapon systems instead of trying to divide US citizens, splintering our families with all the Q/Maga crap, influencing our elections, anti-vax BS, and spawning billions of right-wing facebook/twitter bots. Granted, they are good at it. There are still plenty of very stupid ass Americans who are drinking from the firehose of bullshit. I even dug into some shady political emails I got and sure enough it went back to a .ru domain. Fuck Russia.

    I agree, Russia had more potential advancing their war machine designs, e.g. the SU-57 is phenomenal, but just too costly to make in large numbers.

    I think Bannon/Trump (and other big money players) opened the door for autocratic hell to breach, and Putin seized the historic opportunity. Bannon saw these opportunities coming on the horizon, worldwide, and helped empower Trump with his “solutions”. I think. I don’t want to sound too much like a conspiracy theorist. 🙂

    Robert, speaking of social media firehoses, some weeks ago I had what felt like an epiphany. For years I’ve felt that tribalism has culturally evolved into uber-tribalism, which could explain a lot of our bifurcated political extremes. What hit me was that it’s not just tribalism, but tribalism uber-amplified by “viralism”, e.g. starting with the viralism of angry radio talk show hosts decades ago, to Fox (and other uber-partisan media), and finally to social media rising on click-bait and other kinds of meme-powered viralism. Add, like you mentioned, bots too. Even just plain old modern culture is now propelled more by feverish viralism than ever before. And it’s not just .ru feeding the viralism monster.

    #44576

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Robert, speaking of social media firehoses, some weeks ago I had what felt like an epiphany. For years I’ve felt that tribalism has culturally evolved into uber-tribalism, which could explain a lot of our bifurcated political extremes. What hit me was that it’s not just tribalism, but tribalism uber-amplified by “viralism”, e.g. starting with the viralism of angry radio talk show hosts decades ago, to Fox (and other uber-partisan media), and finally to social media rising on click-bait and other kinds of meme-powered viralism. Add, like you mentioned, bots too. Even just plain old modern culture is now propelled more by feverish viralism than ever before. And it’s not just .ru feeding the viralism monster.

    I personally knew some older guys who listened to the right-wing radio every waking hour. It has a drug-like effect on them and it’s all they could talk about, and the consequence is that nobody wanted to be around them. Divorced and even more lonely and bitter. The manipulators put such a flag-waving, apple-pie, nostalgic spin on all the blaming and shaming.

    And as you mentioned…then along comes all the right-wing blogger/influencers like Rogan (who sometime pretend to be reasonable or liberals) with zero accountability. So many unnecessary covid deaths in exchange for view counts.  Thousands of the now dead posted this MEME on their FB pages, including this dead guy. He had a right to be misled, a right to refuse the vaccine, the right to catch and spread the virus. Every moron who could not pass basic probability quiz became an epidemiologist overnight.

    Now they are detecting polio virus in US wastewater again.

    #44577

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    PopeBeanie,

    I doubt much credible “counter-culture” comes from a band who “Fights The Man” for $Millions of Dollars a show and sells over-priced logo gear made in the very “sweatshops” they claim to disparage.

    Rage Against the Machine becomes the machine
    by Salena Zito, National Political Reporter |
    February 14, 2020 05:18 PM
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/rage-against-the-machine-becomes-the-machine

    #44578

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Reg,

    One thing I’ve noticed is that, in addition to the usual appeasement rhetoric from the Left which your Sunday School story rightly documented, there is a contingent of the Right called National Conservatives with much overlap with Religious Conservatives who shill for Putin. They actually accuse anyone who opposes Putin and supports the Ukrainians right to exist of being “Davos Men” in league with the World Economic Forum. They even accuse opponents of Putin of being Woke(!)

    I’ve had run-ins with them on another Forum and, having railed against Wokeism in no uncertain terms, that made me mad as Hell. 🤬

    After I got my composure, I decided to rub their noses in it and send them a Casey Kasem-style Long Distance Dedication!

    Yes,this Long Distance Dedication goes out to all the Putineers, Dugin Hooligans, and Kirill Christers out there! It’s sung by the hard-rockin’ British band Bad Company so you know this isn’t some Goddamn Dead Dog Dedication! Without further Ado, here’s their Ponderous Fucking Ponderously awesome song “Silver, Blue, and Gold”:

    Silver, Blue, and Gold–Bad Company

    And, of course, the Casey Kasem back story 😁:

    Casey Kasem Loses It Over A Death Dedication

    #44579

    Unseen
    Participant

    @Enco

    I’m reminded by your Kasem video:

    #44580

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Thanks Unseen.

    Twas funneeee

    #44581

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    I doubt much credible “counter-culture” comes from a band who “Fights The Man” for $Millions of Dollars a show and sells over-priced logo gear made in the very “sweatshops” they claim to disparage.

    Noted, at least in a counter-counter-culture way. I’m relatively new to Rage Against the Machine, always having (in my past) habitually ignored the most popular music. I’m still mostly unaware of their history. I even ignored Led Zeppelin for too long, just because they were so popular. (How naive I kept myself!)

    Meanwhile yes, eco-activists that fly jet planes or sponsor large conventions inevitably attract the “whatabout…” discreditors. And the “All Lives Matter” whatabout response to BLM comes from a shamelessly, intentionally clueless lot, giving hate tacit permission to carry on. (They must know that’s what they’re doing, right? Seems a lot of us can just keep ourselves naive, while welcoming confirmation bias.)

    #44582

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    And then there’s this reaction to current events.

    Anti-immigrant party helps defeat Sweden’s government

    Exerpts (from the WaPo article):

    “It is time to make Sweden good again,” Akesson wrote on Facebook.

    The closely watched election has already reshaped Sweden’s political discourse, pushing anti-immigrant and tough-on-crime rhetoric into the political mainstream and deepening fears here about the polarization — or “Americanization” — of Swedish politics.
    The European far right has welcomed the SD’s strong showing. “Everywhere in Europe, people aspire to take their destiny back into their own hands!” tweeted Marine Le Pen, France’s far-right firebrand, this week.

    […]

    The party has cultivated links with Trump supporters and the alt-right in the United States, she said: “Previously it was the Moderates who had contacts with the Republicans, but now it is the SD who has taken over and the Moderates are connected with the Democrats.”

    “There is concern here that we are becoming more like America with polarization and intense rhetoric,” said Adamson, of the Atlantic Council. “Where every battle becomes an existential one.”

    #44583

    The Russians can ignore Putin’s lies but nobody should ignore Led Zep.

     

    #44584

    Autumn
    Participant

    I doubt much credible “counter-culture” comes from a band who “Fights The Man” for $Millions of Dollars a show and sells over-priced logo gear made in the very “sweatshops” they claim to disparage.

    Noted, at least in a counter-counter-culture way. I’m relatively new to Rage Against the Machine, always having (in my past) habitually ignored the most popular music. I’m still mostly unaware of their history.

    Rage went above and beyond most music groups throughout the last decade in pursuit of ideals and promoting anti-authoritarian views. They’ve frequently turned down money to reduce capitalization off of their music which is typically about subjects like police brutality, anti-militarism, anti-authoritarianism etc. They’ve been vocal and active political dissenters and have performed (or attempted to) and protested under threat of arrest and actual arrest. They are, whether or not it’s everyone’s cup of tea, fairly musically talented with a genre-bending sound that wasn’t entirely new when it came out, but managed to blur some boundaries between subcultures of the 90s.

    Have they sold out? I can’t say. The band members could have far more wealth than they do had they chosen to really profit off their music, and yet they are far from hard up. Estimates I’ve seen place the net worth of individual band members between $20-30 million which is definitely wealthy.

    In terms of ticket sales from this concert, It’s hard to say if the band is going for a money grab here. A lot of the money is going to charity. Obviously there are operational costs, and openers like Run the Jewels (also really famous) are owed their cut. Bands have less power to control ticket prices than some may like to believe. Venues, promoters, and ticketing agents have a fair amount of pull and Ticketmaster, specifically, is a beast. Not just a beast, but a beast with a cold dead heart. It’s a company that has been caught out pretty much scalping its own tickets, adopting airline-like pricing structures with ‘dynamic pricing’ and it’s weaselled it’s way so deep into the industry that it is insanely difficult for a band to avoid them as the agreements Ticketmaster has are with the venues.

    For a band like Rage, small venues are likely no longer an option. Maybe they could get away with it for an underground show here or there, but not for a full tour. The arenas are all rather corporate. They could try to go guerrilla style, but probably wouldn’t manage more than a show or two before getting shut down and subsequently sued. They could also just not perform anymore or stick to only protests, I suppose.

    I can understand to a conservative news outlet, being able to call hypocrisy on a band like Rage is all good fun. But to some extent there is a catch-22 in American free speech. If you want to boost the signal of the message in this capitalist/ consumerist paradigm, it’s going to take money to do it. So you you fight fire with fire by making sure you have the commercial viability to get your voice out there and heard speaking out against the system, or do you stick to unyielding principles and get drowned out? The options aren’t exactly that bleak, but for Rage to tour, all of the resources to do it are gate kept under a certain set of highly capitalistic rules that the band doesn’t necessarily have the power to circumvent.

    #44586

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    That classic out-take from Bill O’Reilly probably prompted increased interest in Sting’s practice of Tantric Yoga. Do this so you don’t end up like that. Ooooohhhhhmmmm! 🕉️😌🕉️😁

    Regarding Ukraine, I don’t think they’ll have the same supply chain problems as Putin, simply because Ukraine has no desire to extend beyond it’s existing borders and it’s exit strategy is to stop fighting when it’s border is no longer under attack.

    An empire such as Putin’s New Eurasian Empire will always have supply chain problems and can never have an exit strategy, so it is destined to burn out like other empires. The only question is when. That will be my Namaste moment. 😎

    #44590

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Autumn,

    Some of your Co-Canadians practice what they preach, preach what they practice, praise what they preach and practice, proudly pocket every Penny they earn, and prevail over pernicious, putrid Rock reviewers. *

    Rush–The Big Money

    Not to mention made some deep, profound songs and albums on Totalitarian dystopias and religious dogma vs.Individualism and Reason, the creative struggles of artists, and timeless philosophical questions. I’m sure their ticket prices were reachable too.

    * Sorry about praticing my alliteration on you, but it’s just started and I couldn’t shut it down. 😁

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 6 days ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling
    #44592

    Unseen
    Participant

    Regarding Ukraine, I don’t think they’ll have the same supply chain problems as Putin, simply because Ukraine has no desire to extend beyond it’s existing borders and it’s exit strategy is to stop fighting when it’s border is no longer under attack.

    An empire such as Putin’s New Eurasian Empire will always have supply chain problems and can never have an exit strategy, so it is destined to burn out like other empires. The only question is when. That will be my Namaste moment

    Zelensky(y) is jonesing for getting Crimea back, but I’m not sure the NATO states are that enthusiastic for the war.

    The U.S. empire is crumbling and the BRICS countries are seriously proposing moving away from the U.S. Dollar, so the U.S. empire may also be in trouble. I think the Ruble is more powerful now than before the “special operation” began. So much for sanctions. It’s looking like Germans may suffer more than the Russians this Winter.

    #44593

    Autumn
    Participant

    I’m sure their ticket prices were reachable too.

    Again, this assumes artist control over ticket prices. The base value for RATM tickets is $125. All profits from the first three shows were promised to charity. A limited number of tickets were sold at a premium allegedly to mitigate scalpers though I am not sure how). All of the money from those tickets above base price goes to charity. As for how much RATM makes, who knows?

    That Rush sings against Big Money is great. At the end of the day, Geddy Lee, Neil Peart, and Alex Lifeson all have (or had) higher net worths than Tom Morello, the wealthiest member of RATM. All of them, between both bands, have net worths in the tens of millions. All of them, between both bands, likely could have sold out harder at one point or another to make more money Gene Simmons style.

    #44594

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Regarding Ukraine, I don’t think they’ll have the same supply chain problems as Putin, simply because Ukraine has no desire to extend beyond it’s existing borders and it’s exit strategy is to stop fighting when it’s border is no longer under attack.

    An empire such as Putin’s New Eurasian Empire will always have supply chain problems and can never have an exit strategy, so it is destined to burn out like other empires. The only question is when. That will be my Namaste moment

    Zelensky(y) is jonesing for getting Crimea back, but I’m not sure the NATO states are that enthusiastic for the war. The U.S. empire is crumbling and the BRICS countries are seriously proposing moving away from the U.S. Dollar, so the U.S. empire may also be in trouble. I think the Ruble is more powerful now than before the “special operation” began. So much for sanctions. It’s looking like Germans may suffer more than the Russians this Winter.

    Or maybe the Ruble is worth about half of what it was worth when Putin took over. Not a great looking chart. Amazing with all those natural resources Russian soldiers try to steal Ukranian washing machines and end up getting their asses all shot up. Putler can’t even declare a real war cuz he knows he’d be the next one falling out of windows.

    https://www.google.com/finance/quote/RUB-USD?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDuuTi7Jz6AhVFjIkEHdOTBGwQmY0JegQIAxAb&window=MAX

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