It's not Russia, it's Putin

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This topic contains 132 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 2 hours, 34 minutes ago.

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  • #44638

    Autumn
    Participant

    It is a fantasy to believe every exertion of work or work per hour has equal value to any society.

    No one is saying that.

    To believe that a function that takes 5 minutes to master is as worthy as something that takes years of dedicated graduate study and professional internship is dim.

    How long it takes to master something isn’t really relevant to it’s worth, not in terms of earnings nor actual practical value. “Worthiness” is a word to jerk yourself off to.

    And sorry, in a world of limited resources there will always be competition.

    Well, we have limited resources in the sense that most resources are finite. But that doesn’t mean they are limited in terms of meeting needs. Distribution can be limited, but if we’re talking about being able to afford a modest living debt free with health care, food security, housing security, and access to education, then many countries experiencing gross inequity aren’t really facing a shortage of resources. If it’s penthouse suites and mega yachts, sure, compete for the frivolous shit all you like, but you exist in a society where people who work full time hours often fall below cost of living.

    And when you seated eating a terrible meal from a seatback tray 40,000 feet in the air or unconscious on an operating table you will be happy to know the people you are depending on for your life are happy with their rewards for taking that grueling path to get there.

    And when I’m sitting in a town that isn’t disease riddled because it’s filled with detritus and shit, I’ll be pleased that there are people who take care of trash removal, who maintain sewer systems/ plumbing etc. Likewise, were I in a hospital, I’d be valuing the custodial staff along with the nurses and doctors because sanitation matters in a hospital. What’s the point?

    #44639

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Right. It takes years of sacrifice and hard work to empty a trash bucket. 99 percent of people just can’t do it. All those years of unpaid struggle, loans, and 12-hour internships and giving up a big chunk of the prime-time of their life. If they screw up with that broom handle someone is gonna die. I like to play pretend too.

    There is just no better of a demotivator than Marxism. After decades of mass starvation, the Chinese figured it out and now they have mutated into some sort of quasi ultra-capitalist dictatorship.

    #44642

    Autumn
    Participant

    If sanitation isn’t taken care of in a hospital, people are going to die, yes. Likewise, if garbage and sewage couldn’t be removed safely, it would become a major health hazard. Again, the number of years that a person trains is irrelevant to the actual importance or necessity of a job. Someone who gets their PhD in racial studies puts in years of unpaid struggle, loans, and probably intern/ volunteer hours, but that doesn’t mean their earnings reflect that. You’re creating a false meritocracy.

    In the current iteration of capitalism, an e-sports competitor or Twitch streamer may very well make more than a doctor. Researchers at a pharmaceutical company will likely not be the highest paid in the organization because, despite their education and essential contribution. Managers will typically make more than their teams even if they are shitty managers. A CEO who tanks a company will still most likely be compensated higher than employees who make positive contributions.

    We have nicely romanticized ideals about why some get paid more than others, but they don’t stack up well in reality.

    #44643

    jakelafort
    Participant

    The value of the job to civilization does not necessarily align with difficulty of qualifying in terms of aptitude, intelligence or education. Nor does the compensation for a job necessarily align with its value to civilization. So like everything else in human affairs it is messed up. That humans tolerate a few people making decisions about war and policy is messed up. That a few have the most wealth is messed up. I listened to that guy Unseen linked a while ago and thought he had some good ideas but also some naivete in terms of practicality.

    When i could not stand to practice law any longer my goal was to be a garbage man. I was gonna stop being involved with one form of garbage and instead work with the garbage that the garbage produced. Garbage in. Garbage out. Were it not for the ponies treating me kindly i would have been a garbage man complaining about the summer heat and the smells.

    Ya know it is easy to say how hard your professional job is. I used to do that. But how hard is the quotidian routine of utter and sheer boring repetition?

    #44644

    jakelafort
    Participant

    *addendum

    The other thing about jobs is the status conferred. No need to elaborate.

    #44645

    _Robert_
    Participant

    If you are just gonna flatten the pay scale according to need, disregarding skill and gravity of a position, I would just become very needy and have fun all day. It is a nonsensical idea that will never materialize. And of course, all attempts to implement such nonsense end up as an oligarchical economy overseen by a dictator.

    If you do allow for true demand-driven capitalist competition and really tax and disperse according to need you could flatten the wealth inequality. We don’t do that very well…so the response on campus is let’s go with Marxism according to some cushy prof’s who make 6-figures as they watch their admin departments bleed-out their students, LOL. There are so many of them that the whack jobs like Jordan Peterson start becoming celebrities.

    #44646

    _Robert_
    Participant

    News that Putler is “mobilizing” another 300K for the meat grinder and banning potentials from leaving is finally gonna wake-up the Russian population from their little dream-like state that all is normal. I guess they used up all their pro soldiers and prisoners. He’s even buying back arms and ammo from his buddy, cheeky Kim.

    #44647

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Robert, you wrote…if you do allow for true demand-driven capitalist competition and really tax and disperse according to need you could flatten the wealth inequality.

    I understand the concept of demand-driven capitalist competition. But i am not certain what you mean by disperse according to need. Would you elaborate?

    #44648

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Robert, you wrote…if you do allow for true demand-driven capitalist competition and really tax and disperse according to need you could flatten the wealth inequality. I understand the concept of demand-driven capitalist competition. But i am not certain what you mean by disperse according to need. Would you elaborate?

    I am in favor of simple (no loophole) progressive taxation to implement programs that focus on alleviating root-causes of the most prevalent social ills. For example, it is idiotic to try to reduce crime with more police. I would determine the most pressing Federal issues via a national ballet poll and similarly determine local issues via local election polls. Right now, the issues that get addressed are determined by paybacks, PACS and personal interest/beliefs/assessments of each politician. Why?

    Every competing potential elected official would get the same set amount of funding to use for campaigning and any other contributions/lobbying would not be allowed. I would also introduce ranked choice non-binary voting

    #44650

    Autumn
    Participant

    If you are just gonna flatten the pay scale according to need, disregarding skill and gravity of a position, I would just become very needy and have fun all day. It is a nonsensical idea that will never materialize. And of course, all attempts to implement such nonsense end up as an oligarchical economy overseen by a dictator.

    No one said anything about flattening the pay scale. You responded to a video that was giving an example of when the US responded to shortages with a rationing system rather than a free market solution.

    If you do allow for true demand-driven capitalist competition and really tax and disperse according to need you could flatten the wealth inequality.

    You don’t do it well because it won’t work well. If you end up in a paradigm where the capitalist’s primary motivation is monetization of labour or ROI, and where most people need employment to be able to afford the basics of life, you end up with a situation where governments perpetually have to appease an investor/ job creator class to make sure enough capital is circulating to fund the overall system.

     

    #44651

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Good answer Robert. At least it makes sense to me.

    I would also have experts in each area of political debate to grill the candidates publicly. No advance notice of the questions either. It is the best way to cut through the bullshit. Get to see how they think on their feet with hypotheticals, get a sense of the depth of their knowledge and character perhaps. Lobbying is just so obviously antithetical to our interests.

    The idea of identifying federal and local issues and which of those are salient and paramount makes a great deal of sense. How to get to the root cause makes sense. Then again philosopher kings or should i say any thinker who is not just another cookie cutter ideologue will never be the influencers who effectuate change.

    #44653

    Every Sunday morning the village doctor would take his old Mercedes soft-top out for a drive in the countryside. He would always feel recharged for the week ahead when he returned. One sunny Sunday morning the engine stuttered to a halt and he just managed to coast into the local mechanic’s forecourt. He was sure that the local mechanic would be able to fix it as he had kept it serviced for him over the years. He just hoped that Tom would not mind him calling on a Sunday.

    Tom opened his front door when the doctor knocked. Well Doc, as you always deal with our emergencies, I suppose it is only fair that I do the same for you. Open the hood and I will take a look.

    Tom tried the ignition but it failed to fire up. He knew what the problem was immediately and went around to the engine. He took out a screwdriver and adjusted one screw. Try it again now Doc! It sprang into life and then purred as sweet as ever. The doctor was very happy.

    How much do I owe you Tom?

    Just call it ten bucks as there is no call out charge or weekend charge.

    $10!! Ten dollars for turning a screw???

    Not at all Doc! It’s only $1 dollar for the labor. Anyone can use a screwdriver. But it’s $9 dollars for knowing which screw to turn and how much to turn it.

    #44654

    _Robert_
    Participant

    You don’t do it well because it won’t work well. If you end up in a paradigm where the capitalist’s primary motivation is monetization of labour or ROI, and where most people need employment to be able to afford the basics of life, you end up with a situation where governments perpetually have to appease an investor/ job creator class to make sure enough capital is circulating to fund the overall system.

    That is true…the motivation part is key. Market driven capitalism and international corporations with their armies of employees have been so successful at food, health, finance, energy, construction and transportation production (allowing for the population to explode) that they may have led us to the brink of extinction via global warming. I remember back in the 70s you would see pictures of an African villagers wearing tribal garb and a pair of Adidas.

    #44655

    Davis
    Moderator

    It would be nice to see someone respond to Autumn once in a while without mischaracterising her statements/position, inventing claims she never made and relent and concede a point once in a while.

    #44656

    Davis
    Moderator

    It would be nice to see someone respond to Autumn once in a while without mischaracterising her statements/position, inventing claims she never made and relent and concede a point once in a while.

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