It's not Russia, it's Putin

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This topic contains 134 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 37 minutes ago.

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  • #44666

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    That guy on the video is full of crap. If inflation is merely “managers” deciding at a whim to raise prices, then why don’t they go up forever on everything, as limitless as whims go?

    Also, nobody “prays” to a market. The market is just the sum total of all decisions about production, exchange, and consumption…including yours. Assholes who talk about controlling markets are talking about controlling you!

    I’ll get into this more later.

    • This reply was modified 6 days, 3 hours ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling of market. I didn't mean to capitalize it. That might give the wrong idea
    #44668

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Reg,

    Take it from me. Fried okra is a better visual to associate with shagging than boiled okra. Boiled okra has to be mixed with stewed tomatoes to be palpable. 😁

    #44669

    Autumn
    Participant

    Unseen, That guy on the video is full of crap. If inflation is merely “managers” deciding at a whim to raise prices, then why don’t they go up forever on everything, as limitless as whims go? Also, nobody “prays” to a market. The market is just the sum total of all decisions about production, exchange, and consumption…including yours. Assholes who talk about controlling markets are talking about controlling you! I’ll get into this more later.

    I like how you switch from being excessively literal to going entirely off the rails in the span of an ellipsis.

    #44670

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Autumn,

    I’ll be honest, I really don’t give a shit about Rush (and the video wouldn’t play), so I’ll take your word for it. Sometimes I just wish you could make a coherent argument against something.

    Meh! Be old and grey, then.

    🤷‍♂️

    #44671

    Boiled okra? Painful man! But try air frying it with some spices and even a few coconut flakes if you want. I call it bhindi as I only ever have it as an Indian dish. We cook so much of it and my job is to spend 45 minutes slicing it up!

    #44672

    Autumn
    Participant

    Autumn,

    I’ll be honest, I really don’t give a shit about Rush (and the video wouldn’t play), so I’ll take your word for it. Sometimes I just wish you could make a coherent argument against something.

    Meh! Be old and grey, then. 🤷‍♂️

    #44673

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Boiled okra? Painful man! But try air frying it with some spices and even a few coconut flakes if you want. I call it bhindi as I only ever have it as an Indian dish. We cook so much of it and my job is to spend 45 minutes slicing it up!

    Okra grows like a weed in dog days of summer down here. Bhindi sounds delicious. We should try that. We got out fall veg garden started and here comes a storm.

    #44674

    Unseen
    Participant

    Unseen, That guy on the video is full of crap. If inflation is merely “managers” deciding at a whim to raise prices, then why don’t they go up forever on everything, as limitless as whims go?

    Also, nobody “prays” to a market. The market is just the sum total of all decisions about production, exchange, and consumption…including yours. Assholes who talk about controlling markets are talking about controlling you!

    I’ll get into this more later.

    Prof Wolf is a graduate of Harvard (BA, 66), Stanford (MA, 67), and Yale (PhD, 69),  Professor Emeritus of Economics at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, and currently a Visiting Professor in the Graduate Program in International Affairs of the New School in New York. Wolff has also taught economics at Yale University, City University of New York, University of Utah, University of Paris I (Sorbonne), and The Brecht Forum in New York City.

    I don’t mean that as an argumentum ad verecundiam but just to underline the notion that whatever objections you propose he has probably considered and rejected, meaning that you’re taking a simplistic interpretation of what he has said.

    Who says managers raise prices on a “whim”? I don’t recall him saying that. He’s a professional economist so I’m sure he understands that making business decisions on mere whims is stupid. I’m sure he thinks managers are being rational. However, they just consider their workers as a resource, like widgets, and one doesn’t consider how one’s decisions affect the lives of widgets. In fact, one major way of making money for capitalists and their managers, is to get rid of workers or pay even less for them, sometimes using foreign workers instead, playing one downtrodden group off against another.

    The idolatry of the “free market,” as Wolff often points out, traps us in a cycle of growth and collapse that lasts on average about 7 years. Sometimes 5 or 6,sometimes 9 or 10). We may be in one of the collapses now, supercharged by the supply chain and energy cost problems largely caused by the pandemic.

    You and I are facing very problematic inflation at the grocery store, the gasoline pump, and almost everywhere else. However, who isn’t suffering so much? The capitalists. Sure, their stocks have lost value and the value of their palatial home(s) may finally be going down, but suffer? No, they aren’t suffering. Not like the family which is forced to decide where to spend her meager income, be it on rent, fuel, food, and prescription medications.

    And the mega-capitalists, most notably folks like Jeff Bezos, how are they doing? Their wealth has actually just about doubled during the pandemic. I think we can expect them to do well during any recession as well. Sure, their net worth will go down during a recession, but they’ll have plenty of wealth left over to do some bottom fishing, picking up new businesses they can buy for a song.

    The free market is no friend to the average person. No solution to homelessness. No help for users of the ridiculously out of control costs related to America’s health care system, which is the cause of about 2/3 of all bankruptcies. Companies like Blackrock are buying up housing so that they can control the (free) housing market and control prices. And why is Bill Gates buying up so much farm land?

    Should we just keep believing or at least acting as if giving the capitalists an ever freer hand is the key to success when it’s so obvious that the trend is in the opposite nd wrong direction?

    Why?

    Here is Wolff not talking about controlling the marketplace, but rather about who’s in control at the local level. So, he is neither a classic Communist nor a European social Democrat where decisions tend to be top down. It’s just short of 6 minutes long. Hopefully you have time to watch it:

     

     

     

    #44675

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Unseen,

    Great businesses don’t start out as the few versus the many. They start out as the few. One or two people with a great idea. Are they are supposed to hire workers and let them vote on how to run their business? Why in the world would they wanna do that? Often what does happen, is that once the visionary is gone or gets overpowered, the business suffers.

    As an engineering manager I would often call on a collective team to find and implement solutions. The teams would often become paralyzed with indecision or suffer from group think. Feelings get hurt. It was unbearable paying $10,000/hour to watch a team of workers home-in on mediocrity. It almost always worked out better when I just assigned the problem to the best person and let them run.

    Many company decisions are made with knowledge of secret corporate plans and competitive strategies that can’t be divulged. And many decisions are based on complicated laws, regulations, legal agreements, and tax strategies that the average employee could never comprehend. That’s why the folks in coffee-break room are shaking their heads over some policy or decision that seems stupid to them.

    Sure, the professor has impressive academic credentials…has he ever started up and run a successful communist business? He seems oblivious to the real world where people are really not that interested in “nurturing” each other at work.

    #44676

    Unseen
    Participant

    @ Robert

    It may be true that there is a threshold in number of workers needs to be reached. And what? There’s never wrangling among managers and board members? How in the world do they accomplish that? And how do they manage to understand all of the complications of the business? Surely there are workers capable of understanding things who are probably better at explaining things to their peers than an engineer or scientist would be with the benefit of being more believable when the news is something the workers don’t really want to hear.

    For about three years, I worked as a tech writer in a very technical industry, ultra-high speed processing of arithmetic problems. This was back in the 1980s and I recall a company meeting where the President/Founder explained that our computers could compute all of the computations of all of the banks in the world in a year in less than an hour. Today, that might be regarded as slow, but then it was groundbreaking stuff.

    Part of my job was to write readable manuals based on technical documents generated by the engineers. We writers, few of us with technical degrees, had to sit down with engineers and force them to give us a dumbed down version of their documents for the higher level manuals for people in the field who probably didn’t have the level of understanding of the engineers. The really technical manuals were largely off the engineers’ keyboards. We just cleaned up the grammar and spelling pretty much.

    My point being, of course, that most things can be explained in plain language most people can understand. And those who can’t understand are probably used to having to take other people’s word for stuff.

    Wolff is a self-described Marxist, not a socialist in the social democrat sense of the word and he certainly isn’t a communist in almost any sense of the word. I think it’s hard to deny that capitalism is taking the world—and Americans in particular—in the wrong direction.

    If not something like what Wolff proposes, then you must have a better idea to implement before we are all totally in chains. What is it?

    #44677

    Unseen
    Participant

    @ Robert  @ Enco

    Here on the Thom Hartmann show Wolff explains Marxism and in the process explains many other things. Hartmann, by the way, is a entrepreneurial businessman as well as an author of 20 or so books on history and politics.

    #44678

    _Robert_
    Participant

    I really like what he wants to do. The practicality part seems doubtful and unproven. Case in point, if we take the place that I worked at here in Trump country, sometimes it feels like every one of the factory workers is a MAGAt. It’s not exactly an enlightened workforce, kinda

    Let these people run the factory? Your manuals would be useless. Good luck !

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFQhw3VVToQ&t=209s

    #44679

    jakelafort
    Participant

    I’nat part of what deTocqueville bitched about in terms of democracy. Tyranny of the majority. Stupidity of the masses.

    So ya it is a legit concern Robert raises. And goddamn does murica have a great many morons.

    Perhaps the majority votes as to it’s intentions or policy objectives and an outside group is hired that effectuates the worker’s intentions/objectives.

    #44680

    Unseen
    Participant

    @ Robert

    “When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.”

    Since you didn’t offer up any solution to the problem of the ongoing enriching of the capitalists at the expense of you and me, perhaps it’s time to try something other than a hammer.

    As for your video, stupid people, like the poor, will always be with us. Of course, any company run by stupid people would be doomed, but hopefully there will be enough rational people to marginalize the stupid ones.

    Wolff, at least, proposes a solution. It’s easy to stand on the sidelines and throw stones.

    • This reply was modified 4 days, 18 hours ago by  Unseen.
    #44682

    _Robert_
    Participant

    @ Robert “When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.” Since you didn’t offer up any solution to the problem of the ongoing enriching of the capitalists at the expense of you and me, perhaps it’s time to try something other than a hammer. As for your video, stupid people, like the poor, will always be with us. Of course, any company run by stupid people would be doomed, but hopefully there will be enough rational people to marginalize the stupid ones. Wolff, at least, proposes a solution. It’s easy to stand on the sidelines and throw stones.

    Ahh, but I did offer my solution when answering Jake, a page or 2 back. You really should watch more debates instead of monologues. After all Jimmy Dore says Ukraine is a Nazi state that was poised to attack France, Poland, Britan and Russia. Good thing Russia was preemptive, huh?

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