Ukraine has already lost the war

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

There was a famous collection of AT&T commercials with a famous slogan about the same time as the events of 1989 that bears repetition:

Also, according to this article, Putin was welcomed to apply to join NATO, but didn’t want to “wait in line with other nations that don’t matter.”. This shows where Putin’s priorities lie and that his complaints about NATO are phony:

Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Autumn,

The U.S. Marines are no joke. They were and are the original Special Forces of the U.S. and woe betide anyone who runs up on them.

[_Robert_Participant]

The Russians built barracks on top of an ammo dump. And Russian draftees used their cell phones, so their hosts easily located their position. Ukraine is lucky that Russians are that stupid. They should really stick to ballet and cheating in the Olympics.

[AutumnParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Autumn, The U.S. Marines are no joke. They were and are the original Special Forces of the U.S. and woe betide anyone who runs up on them.

Except, there are fewer than 300 scout snipers on active duty in the USMC (according to the DoD as of 2018), so your 700 and 350 USMC sniper scenarios are most likely out the window. 175 x 3 = 525, so that scenario is broken unless we up it to four kills (hey, we all make math blunders from time to time). Under the right conditions, elite snipers have managed more than four consecutive kills, but the idea of that happening over a hundred times in one day across a large geographic region… uh, yeah, no.

The part that makes it seem like a joke is you characterized 700 kills in one day as “quite simple” then proposed something wildly unrealistic (and partially impossible). You then characterized the feat as ‘easy pickings’ and hoped the Ukrainian forces might get the same training. As what? USMC snipers? That’s an elite unit with an over 50% failure rate on training—training conducted under far more ideal circumstances pulling from a broader pool of well-trained soldiers. I am sure there are Ukrainian (and allied) fighters who have (or had) the talent, but the resources probably just aren’t there to train up those who weren’t already specialized. If it were that easy, the Russians would do it too. Hell, every army might as well.

The point here is not that I am an expert on modern warfare. It’s more if there were a dunning-Kruger Olympics, I’d be betting all my money on you in this event.

 

[UnseenParticipant]

Ukraine has lost 100,00-250,000 in the war so far. Neither side really cares about Ukraine. Russia wants a buffer zone and the NATO countries want to give Russia a hard time, and we’ll do it by helping Ukrainians fight till the last one has died.

[_Robert_Participant]

Jimmy Dore again. What a MAGA nobody. Republican idiots can’t even agree on a House speaker. The backlash against all this pro-dictatorship, right-wing stupidity is simmering as the old 60s generation of sell-outs dies off. The entire Trump era cast of rigged-election characters like McCarthy, Guliani and Mike “the pillow guy” will be remembered as the saddest ass-clowns in American history. Way to grab a seat the short bus, comrade.

[DavisModerator]

As you can see Enco, it is obviously a lot more complicated to get a kill rate while avoided pointless homicide of civilians. The best of the best of the US in Iraq couldn’t even handle insurgents and eventually left there (as well as Afghanistan) because war is extremely messy. And they didn’t even manage to do much of what they did without the pointless homicide of civilians (too many documented cases in Iraq and Afghanistan to mention). If the best of the best from the US could do it, then Iraq and Afghanistan would have been over and done with in no time. The most bloated and extremely trained force in the world couldn’t properly occupy one of the worlds poorest and undeveloped country (Afghanistan). And you expect Ukraine (a less equipped and far less well off /developed country) to take on Russia like a piece of cake (with their own bloated and superior army?)

• This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  Davis.

[_Robert_Participant]

People expected corrupt and bloated Russia to take out Ukraine’s government in Kyiv like a piece of cake. But the world learned that Russia looks good only on paper and is suffering losses at 50 times the rate of the US’s misguided military invasions. Russia’s drunk military doesn’t have a clue or a chance against the highly motivated forces of Ukraine. If Putin is perceived as being weak by his peasants, he will be gone. So he has to drag this out and try to eek something from it. Russians, like the MAGATs in the US, crave and need strong dictators on earth and in heaven. They learn nothing from history, it never ends well.

[_Robert_Participant]

Another aspect of this war that get under reported is a lopsided number of paid mercenaries Russia uses, the Wagner group, 50,000 of them. So sad that this is the best way they can find to earn a ruble is to get their asses blown up. Then Russia can exclude them from body counts. They just fertilize the sunflowers.

Then there are the millions of professional men that just up and left Russia. The smart ones. Russians can’t protest in the street, can’t protest on any media, can’t vote for the opposition. They can only vote with their feet and leave their families. Think about that.

Next, the sanctions are just starting to wear. On equipment and people. Russians and Ukrainians have a generation worth of suffering because of Peter Putin the Great.

No former USSR member West or South of Ukraine want anything to do with some new Russian Federation.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Autumn and Davis,

Look, Unseen asked how 700 Russians could get get killed in one day from conventional weapons and I just gave several possibilities. The possibilities involving anti-tank and rocketry would get the most in a single sitting, of course, but well-trained snipers figure in this too. I’m just the messenger.

Yes, Autumn, you’re right about my math error. It would be 233.3_ U.S. Marine Corps Snipers who would fire thrice to get 700 kills. *The Count laughs. 🧛‍♂️*

(I guess we’d have to get the .3_ Sniper from the maternity ward at Camp Lejeune. 😁)

[UnseenParticipant]

_Robert_ wrote:

Jimmy Dore again. What a MAGA nobody. Republican idiots can’t even agree on a House speaker. The backlash against all this pro-dictatorship, right-wing stupidity is simmering as the old 60s generation of sell-outs dies off. The entire Trump era cast of rigged-election characters like McCarthy, Guliani and Mike “the pillow guy” will be remembered as the saddest ass-clowns in American history. Way to grab a seat the short bus, comrade.

Jimmy Dore MAGA right-wing? Hahahahahaha…

Top Channels On YouTube for Progressives (No Neoliberals)

Who is at the top of the list?

1. The Jimmy Dore Show:
By far the bravest, funniest and honest progressive in decades. He yells, abuses and more often than not, gets too emotionally involved in dissing his detractors. But damn, I haven’t found a more sincere, intelligent and principled human being without fear on YouTube. Don’t trust me. Just watch.

 

[jakelafortParticipant]

There is a lot of shit on the net suggesting Dore is a right winger. But whatever. Isn’t it an argument from authority anyhow? Don’t we want to make our own assessment? But how in the fuck do we ascertain facts that have to be the basis of our opinion? My impression is that the Yale historian (something Snyder) that Harris interviewed is well informed and not terribly tendentious. But that is just a guess. I did not look into the guy. It is not difficult if one is armed with a wealth of historical information to spin that shit like a mutha-be selective in promoting the salient facts. And how much time do we want to invest in getting a handle on this war?

Is there any prominent personage who is asking us to question the sanity of our approach? Anyone who says this is how we change it? The good guy/bad guy shit is fucking unproductive. The majority of humans in all nations, all religions, of all descents are capable of committing unspeakable acts of cruelty. But we are also highly plastic and easily influenced. That state of being has to be employed for the betterment of civilization or there wont be a civilization on pale blue dot much longer.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Scott Ritter just said Ukraine is losing “500, 800, 1000 men a day.”

So assuming the truth of what he is saying, it is possible to lose 700 a day with conventional weapons.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Fellow Unbelievers,

One thing is for sure: Jimmy Dore is like listening to Joe Pesci talk politics. Maybe next he’ll express concern for the “Yutes” of America. 😁

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Scott Ritter has a weird notion of causality when he somehow blames the U.S. and the West for all the death and destruction in Ukraine and says Putin did everything possible to avoid war when Putin was the trigger man.

[Author]

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