Veganism: Foolishness or Folly?

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This topic contains 87 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  jakelafort 4 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 88 total)
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  • #36221

    jakelafort
    Participant

    I am guessing that the closer to wolves the greater the insistence on meat. I see dogs with a more varied diet than a lot of people.

    #36222

    Davis
    Moderator

    Whenever we had steak, my beagle would stand in front of us and salivate for an hour as we ate. He would stand perfectly still and stare at us with murderous eyes with a drool hanging out of his mouth that would get longer and longer.  You could not distract him with anything else (he knew he was going to get the leftover bones). When I was a kid I made the silly mistake of trying to play fetch with a steakbone that was recently given to him. He bit me so hard it drew a lot of blood. Never, ever, ever take a steakbone (that still has meat or juices left on it) from a dog even if you were the one who gave it to them. I wouldn’t be surprised if meat on a fire is one of the things that drew wolves towards humans and resulted in their domestication.

    #36223

    I reckon it probably was the smell of meat being cooked that drew in wolves to investigate. The less aggressive ones got the scraps and started to hang out near the tribe. Maybe the became guard dogs at night for being fed and eventually moved into the homes. They trained us well!

    #36226

    _Robert_
    Participant

    I had a beagle when I was a little kid. Funniest dog, so focused. Once she was on an interesting scent she would walk me down the street on a leash. Yeah, those eyes lookin up at you, LOL.

    #36227

    Davis
    Moderator

    Beagles are so obsessed with food I swear they would sit intently and wait all day long for the chance to get food they like. They are also absolute vacuum cleaners. I’m not exaggerating when I say if we dropped some food on the floor that we’d leave it there cause we knew “snoopy” would find it in no time. He would also scavenge the entire house for the tiniest crumbs. My dad said he was “a nose with a body attached to it”.

    #36228

    jakelafort
    Participant

    When my sister’s dog visits she can’t wait to survey my work area for food.

    I call her Hoover. Jet black and porcine, slightly overweight million way mongrel, she produces a stertorous chorus as she hovers and hoovers picking off edibles in an orgasmic ritual.

    #36229

    Unseen
    Participant

    Poorly formatted. Deleted.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    #36231

    Unseen
    Participant

    Primates in general don’t eat a lot of meat. Termites and small rodents supplement fruit, grass shoots, seeds and nuts. Early small hominids, probably the same. Then at some point spear tips show up. I saw one paper putting spear points at 500K years old. I don’t know about you, but I think hunting large game with a spear was no picnic. I bet meat was a real special occasion but an essential addition that provided for our evolution. Nobody sacrificed a pumpkin to their gods. Now it’s 3 meals a day for so many. Probably way more than we are geared for like Unseen has mentioned.

    Neanderthals ate 80% meat.

    I speculate that it was likely much the same for the earlies homo sapiens until agriculture reared its ugly head, introducing the early beginnings of the unnatural foods which form the basis of today’s highly processed monocrop-based diet. I think that meat, in those days, was probably healthier than meat today, antibiotics and hormones aside, much the way bison is far better than meat from beef cattle.

    You don’t need separate spear tips if you can find a relatively straight stick 5 feet long or longer and can sharpen the end of the stick. The largest game, the ancient predecessors of todays elephants, were sometimes driven over cliffs, where they died, and became food for early man and various scavengers once they were done.

    Game was also driven into pits, often with sharpened stakes sticking up from the bottom.</p>

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by  Unseen.
    #36234

    jakelafort
    Participant

    The answer to this issue is complex but here is an excellent article.

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/foodfeatures/evolution-of-diet/

    #36235

    _Robert_
    Participant

    That is all relatively recent (tens of thousands of years) compared to the millions and millions of years of preliminary primate evolution. I do think increased meat in the diet is probably linked to the step change in brain size and development that took sapiens well past our cousins such as the orangutans. The explosion of the populations of herd animals was then something to take advantage of. That doesn’t mean we should start feeding orangutans tons of meat. So when you look at the big picture, the extra fat in farm raised animals and dairy is what is killing us. We weren’t supposed to live beyond 45 or so anyways.

    #36236

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Robert, according to author of linked article the meat in diet leading to bigger brain is a dominant hypothesis but there is also the notion that cooking is linked.

    Another major notion is that we have not stopped evolving. Thus what was best for our ancestors is not necessarily best for us. And then it is also true that we are not uniform. I think for instance Sherpas have some special adaptation to handle high altitude.

    #36237

    _Robert_
    Participant

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by  _Robert_.
    #36239

    I think for instance Sherpas have some special adaptation to handle high altitude.

    Yes, I believe they have evolved some extra blood vessels in their lips and some other minor adaptations that allow them survive better in colder climates. When western marathon runners take on the Everest marathon (downhill) challenge, no matter how good they are, they are always beaten by locals. This is because they have evolved to process less oxygen and as they descend they get more of it whereas the non locals are only starting to recover from being deprived. I think even a local 16 years old girl has won this event.

    Yes we are still evolving. I also think learning to cook food sped up our brain evolution, rather than meat itself.

    I am going on memory here and don’t have the references for this “fact” to hand. I think it is from the book, “The 10,000 Year Explosion” (which does have some dodgy studies in it).

    Further reading here.

    #36240

    jakelafort
    Participant

    If you have ever tried running on uneven surfaces that are loaded with rocks and roots and ready-made to twist your ankles then you know that your brain somehow keeps you safe. But maybe savannah-evolved and savannah staying peoples are not so equipped. Inquiring minds want to know…

    #36242

    Unseen
    Participant

    @Reg: I suspect some evolutionary adaptation explains the general predominance of black runners, male and female and not all from Africa (the Caribbean, North America, and Europe), in marathons, sprints, and other foot races as well as other sports like basketball and football (both “soccer” and American football). It would appear to be on some level a racial thing.

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