Sunday School

[UnseenParticipant]

Not worth starting a new thread, so I’ll mention this great new Netflix series here. Murder, money, fraud, and religion. What’s not to like?

[KristinaParticipant]

Things that wouldn’t interest me in a religion:
•angels
•gods
•guns
•keeping lies

Things that might interest me in a religion:
•salamanders
•magic

That’s why I am more likely to experiment with LSD than the LDS, I guess.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg,

There was an old series of commercials for Hane’s underwear where this kinky old biddy Inspector 12 says: “They don’t say ‘Hanes’ until I say they say ‘Hanes!'”

By the same token, just because The Roman Catholic Church says “Mary Says ‘Yes,'” doesn’t mean that the Bible that they cite says that “Mary Says ‘Yes'” or, for that matter, that Mary actually did say ‘yes.’

Looking at The Skeptic’s Annotated Bible, at Luke 1:26-38, where the Angel Gabriel visited Mary, all she said was: “Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.”  That could have just as easily meant a shrug and a “Whatever.”

Luke 1:26-38–The Skeptic’s Annotated Bible

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/lk/1.html#26

The Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition is not substantially different either:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+1%3A26-38&version=RSVCE

Therefore, Mary did not say ‘yes,’ and certainly not with this enthusiasm:

😁😆😅🤣

In either case, though, it certainly isn’t anything kids should take as an example of conduct with knocks on the door at night.  After so late, it ain’t “Avon Calling!”

 

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg,

Also, you gotta figure that if Mary said ‘no,’ that would make the angel’s prediction out to be untrue, which would make Yahweh’s word untrue, which would mean he’d get razzed and laughed at by the whole pantheon of other gods at the club.

Yahweh had to save face somehow, so he asked the editors to write him some publicity more fitting with his bad-boy image. #SupernaturalBeingThugLife 😎

• This reply was modified 1 month ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Tension about tense

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Islamophobic is a word created by fascists, and used by cowards, to manipulate morons.

Christopher Hitchens.

[KristinaParticipant]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

Islamophobic is a word created by fascists, and used by cowards, to manipulate morons. Christopher Hitchens.

Were he alive, I’d probably tell him to calm down on that one.

I get it. Has ‘Islamophobic’ ever been thrown around to silence criticism of Islam? Sure.

But where I live, I can think of quite a few cases of irrational antipathy toward Muslims that entirely fit the word. Sadly, it’s common enough that the word is useful.

[DavisModerator]

I agree very much with Kristina re:Islamophobia. While it is DEFINITELY used way too much to silent valid criticism of the ideas of Islam there is also blatant Islamophobia against people who are Muslims (for being Muslims).

I encourage the publication of cartoons depicting the prophet because no set of ideas or symbols of those ideas should be taboo just because its precious to them or the lunacy levels of outrage or threats of violence. These are no reasons to not lampoon and ridicule a set of ideas (that’s what religion is a set of ideas) or the symbols of those ideas (a guy who invented the religious ideas along with the homophobic and sexist concepts that that prophet continued from Christianity). The same goes with pointing out the vicious levels of homophobia and sexism within Islamic societies. This should not be taboo or controversial.

But I have witnessed a lot of Islamophobia myself and it is a serious problem…especially in continental Europe. Systemic prejudice, discrimination and even violence is not a rare thing. Hitchens is off the mark in this case. Very much.

• This reply was modified 4 weeks, 1 day ago by  Davis.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Critiquing Islam as a doctrine or “ism” is not the same as attacking individual Muslims. Islamophobia came about in order to stifle debate that poked holes in the doctrine. A declaration of Islamophobia is an attempt, like blasphemy laws, to compel people engaging in criticism of Islam to self-moderate their own thoughts and words.

Engaging in words or actions that denigrates the individual Muslim person because they follow the doctrine of Islam is different. Most countries have laws against this. For instance, America has laws covering “incitement to imminent lawless action”. Free Speech can lose its First Amendment protection if it incites violence towards an individual or group*

No matter what faith people hold, they have the right to hold it. Muslim have those rights but their ideas do not.

The term “Islamophobia” is not strictly defined which is a problem. I will let Maryam Namazie (whom I once met) give her definition.

*I will leave it to Jakelafort to tell me if I am wrong in principle here, (Hess vs Indiana 1973).

[KristinaParticipant]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

Critiquing Islam as a doctrine or “ism” is not the same as attacking individual Muslims. Islamophobia came about in order to stifle debate that poked holes in the doctrine. A declaration of Islamophobia is an attempt, like blasphemy laws, to compel people engaging in criticism of Islam to self-moderate their own thoughts and words.

What do you have to back up this assertion that that’s how the term came about? Even if true, no one is denying it can be used that way. But in Hitchens’ time it was also used to refer to actual bigotry toward Muslims. You know how to stop it from stifling your voice? Just speak up anyway. I mean, it didn’t seem to stifle him. I can’t say I’ve ever backed down because of it.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Anti-Muslim hatred has reached ‘epidemic proportions’ says UN rights expert.

Hatred of Muslims and criticism of Islamic ideology are not the same thing.

 

[KristinaParticipant]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

Hatred of Muslims and criticism of Islamic ideology are not the same thing.

Who here is saying they are? Who is that statement for? The link you provided doesn’t appear to say that they are the same either.

[Author]

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