Sunday School

[jakelafortParticipant]

Reg, sounds like Hossenpfeffer talking.

I listened to one of her vids three times. And it feels like a nonsequitur to me. But i am open to being persuaded. Do you have a vid or article that is numero uno in getting it across?

Intuition also aligns with free will. But the arguments and evidence against too strong for me to discard. Whereas time albeit similarly aligned with our intuition and evolution is aligned with everything we observe excluding the realm of physics.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

I needed to stop confusing time passing with time as a coordinate 🙂

Yes, but the coordinate keeps changing as time passes.  Or, as you pass time.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Yasmine with another podcast interviewing a Saudi who almost became a jihadi.

Double D’s of Islam on display again. Those D’s are degenerate and depraved and by extension the leftist element who enable the spread of Islam. I like adding element to leftist because it is a way to calumniate similar to adding entity to Zionist. Ya know i have not heard or read anyone make the following observation.

We all know that Islamophobia was coined by Muslim clerics to conflate criticism of Islam with racism/bigotry against individual Muslims. So the leftist element is instrumental in shielding Islam from criticism. But guess who else is shielded? Yeah. Need i expand? Only on demand.

https://atheistzone.com/groups/sunday-school/forum/topic/sunday-school-february-1st-2026/

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Yes, but the coordinate keeps changing as time passes. Or, as you pass time.

That is how we have evolved to think. It is how our human mind interfaces with the world. Time is a concept humans use to explain “change”. We think we exist in a place called “Now” and we sense past and future because of this sensation of “Now”. That’s Newtonian thinking smuggled into relativistic language. You are treating “spacetime” like a spreadsheet that is constantly being edited row by row.

But “t” in spacetime is just another co-ordinate (x,y,z,t). Different coordinates correspond to different spacetime regions. There is no single entity whose coordinate updates. You (the individual) are an extended structure that occupies many coordinates. The “change” is a projection artifact that we find difficult to shake off because we evolved in a 3d world (a 3D Plato’s Cave). It is nigh on impossible to construct a mental image of 4d Spacetime. I will look for some help on this. It is really difficult to explain without drawing on temporal language.

Maybe just think of “Space” for “now”. If I walk across Ireland from Dublin to Galway (or NY to LA), does Dublin move or are there just different locations along a path. Saying a coordinate changes as time passes is like saying latitude changes as space passes. There are different locations along a path. Nothing “moves past” anything else. In terms of the Block Universe, I am not creating new coordinates as I walk along the path. They already exist.

I think this is better: Change is not something coordinates do. Coordinates describe where change is located. In terms of the Block Universe, I am not creating new coordinates as I walk along the path. They already exist. Spacetime is not being created as I move.  I just occupy different coordinates.

Modern physics does not operate with any variable for time = flow. No equation contains a term to describe ‘time is moving’. Relativity explicitly forbids universal flow as different observers in different locations disagree on temporal ordering.  I guess if time actually flowed, there would have to be a “universal present” or a “cosmic clock” of some kind. Our ‘Now’ would be the Martians ‘Now’. but that is not the case. It is relative to the coordinates of the observers location. There is no simultaneous “now”. “Now” is not global. Now is local to an observer’s spacetime coordinates.

Therefore……Flow cannot be a physical feature of reality. It is a human concept that we evolved to explain change. Our memories create the feeling of flow.  Our brains add narrative to explain it. But Relativity isn’t false. So “now”, as a global advancing moment, never existed.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

 

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

[jakelafortParticipant]

Thanks Reg.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

Modern physics does not operate with any variable for time = flow. No equation contains a term to describe ‘time is moving’. Relativity explicitly forbids universal flow as different observers in different locations disagree on temporal ordering.

Is this not “argument from ignorance”?  We can’t explain it, therefore it doesn’t exist?  That’s asking a lot from modern physics.

If I walk across Ireland from Dublin to Galway (or NY to LA), does Dublin move or are there just different locations along a path. Saying a coordinate changes as time passes is like saying latitude changes as space passes.

Dublin doesn’t move, but as you walk across Ireland, time advances.  Also, if you stay in one place, time advances.

Just because time has a localised frame of reference, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.  I think you’re saying, it’s too hard to work out, so it’s not there.

 

[jakelafortParticipant]

Pam Bondi?

A.G.?

She’d have done well in Nazi Germany.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Is this an argument from ignorance?

I am saying, or claiming, that “modern physics does not contain a variable for “time flow.”

I am not saying that we can’t explain flow, therefore it doesn’t exist. Our best-confirmed physical theories make no reference to a flowing present and make successful predictions without one.

Time flowing or the idea of a universal present that is advancing,  is just a human concept. It does no explanatory work and appears in no scientific law. Our brain provides ordered record structure that our memory correlates with earlier brain states. It is how we perceive change. We compare the memory with the current view. Like looking at an old photo of ourselves. But without memory you cannot compare “current state” to “prior state”. You cannot construct a sense of duration because there is no sense of time flowing. The feeling of time passing depends entirely on the asymmetry of memories in our brain.

“Sorry, I lost all track of time there”. Yes, you stopped creating new memories because you stopped monitoring “duration”. Your attention wasn’t updating an internal clock model. You were not comparing present state to stored temporal markers (memories). This does not mean the Universe froze or any physical process was paused. You did not lose time. You just lost some timestamps. Proper Time along your worldline (road) continued.

In spacetime, an object is not a 3D thing that moves. It is a 4D curve or a “worldline”. From my birth to my death, I am not “an entity” or dot moving through time. I am an extended 4D structure. Think of a thread woven though spacetime. (Or as I called myself previously – I am an ontic worm).

Proper Time is the length of that thread measured using spacetime geometry. It is properly described by special relativity. Proper Time is not “time flowing”. It is not part of spacetime geometry.

Think of the road as a line on a map. The road has length. We don’t need the road to “grow” for it to have length. Proper time is the length of the road. Flow would be the road being built as you drive. Physics describes the first but not the second.

The important bit: The worldline is the object. Proper Time is its geometric length. Flow is extra and unnecessary. Felt temporal flow is a human interface phenomenon.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Pat Bondi considers herself to be Trump’s personal lawyer, not the A.G. Imagine what it would be like if Matt Gaetz actually got the job?

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Jake and Reg:

Reg, sounds like Hossenpfeffer talking.

Is all this just a sophisticated, science-y-sounding way for her to say: “Don’t Mention The War!”

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg:

But isn’t the speed of light 186,282 Miles per Second?

And doesn’t time slow for an object as it approaches the speed of light according to Einstein’s Relativity Theory?

And didn’t comparative experiments with atomic clocks on the ground and on skyscrapers, airlines, and satellites confirm and demonstrate both General and Special Relativity?

And doesn’t light and atomic particles in atomic clocks move faster than human memory of moments?

And doesn’t all this depend on time moving and having divisability?

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg:

Will Mind Shift cease to exist if NPR/American Public Media/PRI/PRX/Pacifica Radio doesn’t meet it’s Quarterly Beg-A-Thon goals?

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