Sunday School

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Good push back. You are correct on those points but the “Doesn’t all this depend on time moving and being divisible”? does not follow……

I am in a different timezone so more later….(2 am)

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

In spacetime, an object is not a 3D thing that moves. It is a 4D curve or a “worldline”. From my birth to my death, I am not “an entity” or dot moving through time. I am an extended 4D structure. Think of a thread woven though spacetime. (Or as I called myself previously – I am an ontic worm).

Yes, but you only experience that dot moving through time.  It’s “now”.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg:

While pondering the pushback, I’ll also add: Where is the “It works, bitches” part of these claims about time?

Atomic Theory is proved by nuclear weapons and reactors, the Germ Theory of Disease is proven by the efficacy of vaccines and hand-washing. Evolution is proven by any dog breeder and by visiting any historic site where doors and time period clothing are smaller. Where is the killer app of time denial?

And why is it always Theoretical Physics and Cosmology that does this mind-jangling stuff?

[jakelafortParticipant]

Was curious about the Bondi background since she seems not sharpest tack and obviously venal. I ran into a few lady lawyers who would rip your genitals off and feed em to ya if you made an error. Bondi seems a bumbling stumbling ninny. But here is what AI says about her experience.

As the 87th U.S. Attorney General (confirmed Feb 2025) and former Florida AG (2011–2019), Pam Bondi has extensive legal experience as a prosecutor, litigator, and defense attorney. She served on Donald Trump’s1st impeachment defense team (2020) and in 2026 testified on Epstein files and DOJ oversight.
Key aspects of her trial and legal experience include:
Prosecutorial Career: Spent 18 years as a local prosecutor in Florida handling homicide and various criminal cases.
High-Profile Defense: Acted as a member of the defense team during President Trump’s first impeachment trial.
AG Actions: As Florida AG, she challenged the Affordable Care Act and defended the state’s same-sex marriage ban.
DOJ Leadership (2025-2026): Confirmed as US AG in February 2025; actively pushed for the resumption of federal executions and oversaw the release of Epstein-related files.
Congressional Hearings: Known for contentious, high-stakes testimony, recently facing intense questioning from Democrats regarding the Justice Department’s handling of investigations into Jeffrey Epstein.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

@simon – Yes, but you only experience that dot moving through time. It’s “now”.

Let’s roll it back a little. Let’s try to separate “experience” from “physics”.

Yes, We experience a present. That does not mean reality contains a moving present or a “now” that is moving towards a future. This is our experience of what feels like the “flow of time”. But our experience is not ontology.

When you look at a map with a finger pointing to one location, it feels like “this is where I am”. But the map is not moving past your finger. Your brain is the finger. Your worldline is the map. “Now” is just where your finger points but nothing travels. “Now” is the index your brain assigns to the spacetime region it currently occupies.

But you still cannot prove time flow physically happens because experience of it varies greatly. Time flies when you are busy and drags when waiting for a bus in the rain. Anaesthesia completely removes any experience of time and memory loss disrupts any sense of duration.  If time were physically flowing, its presence would not depend on our attention or memory. The feeling of the passage of time is a human construct.

So yes, we do experience a “present” but not “now”. Experience is a perspective from one region of spacetime, not evidence that reality contains a moving “now”. A camera records one frame at a time, but the film does not move through the camera — the whole reel exists.

No metaphysics is required. But assuming that because something is experienced does not make it fundamental. We experience color, but color does not exist in objects. We experience time flow but time does not exist as a fundamental property of anything. In spacetime “t” is just a location. The feeling of passage is constructed. The human experience is an interface. The “experience”  of being a moving dot is how a brain embedded in one segment (physics) of a worldline interprets its limited access to that structure.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg:

I’m real concerned with all this time denial talk. I don’t want you ending up like, like these two:

‘Obama was created’: GOP lawmaker claims first Black president ‘not organic’ man
man
By David Edwards
February 13, 2026 12:51PM ET
https://www.rawstory.com/tim-burchett-barack-obama-created/#comments_section_start

“Like, Obama’s the one, Obama’s the one who’s, like, sort of skated on this,” Johnson argued. “And nobody’s really brought up his name. But wait a second, like, the vast majority of Epstein’s most heinous crimes took place while Barack Obama was president. Epstein got out of jail right as Barack Obama was being put into office.”

“Obama is, like, signing executive orders,” he continued. “You can, like, tie all this back to the Rothschild Bank. Like, he’s, like, doing all this stuff. And he’s, like, somehow, like, Obama’s getting zero pushback on this. Why is nobody asking Obama, like, why didn’t you do something about Jeffrey Epstein?”

“Because President Obama was created,” Burchett alleged. “He was not, he’s not organic. I mean, you pick this obscure guy from college who has zero records you have college professors that don’t remember him ever being there and he runs and he’s and all of a sudden people drop out of races and he’s unopposed and he goes from a state senator to a to a U.S. senator to an unknown to be in the United States because he was created.”

Benny Johnson claims that Useful Idiot for Islam Obama was in with the Rothschilds and Tim Burchett has gone from “Birtherism” to ” Obama Inorganicism” or even “Obama Mythicism.”. And hey, if a Christian has any contact with Science and Modernity, couldn’t Obama walk creation and chew organic gum at the same time?

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Ain’t nobody got Time for this…….

[StregaModerator]

Hahaha Reg brilliant memories

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Yep…I knew you would remember it. Nice One!!

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg:

I was holding off on linking the Sweet Brown Video.

You can tell that the maker of that video shared an Atheist sense of humor from the Jesus cuddling the baby Tyrannosaurus 🧔🦖 and The Knights of the Round Table from Monty Python and The Holy Grail.

I think I saw Mike Lindell and/or Cliff Ratzenberger from Cheers and/or Sean Connery clapping in that video. Even more fitting!

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg:

I will concede with you that different observers experience time differently and it has been proven that two different observers at different speeds and elevations experience time differently. But saying that time is not fundamental or divisable doesn’t seem to follow from that. Unless I’m missing something, this notion doesn’t appear to address any gaps in our understanding of the universe.

The comparison to color in visible objects doesn’t fit also because different colors have different wavelengths and different Hertz readings on the electromagnetic scale, even if some people have red-green deficiencies and even if some animals like bulls are totally colorblind.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

So yes, we do experience a “present” but not “now”. Experience is a perspective from one region of spacetime, not evidence that reality contains a moving “now”. A camera records one frame at a time, but the film does not move through the camera — the whole reel exists.

I don’t know what it proves.  I’m not saying it proves anything.

The film moves past the camera lens, one frame at a time.  When I sit still, time still moves, as is evidenced by the clock.

I agree that my life exists as a wiggly curve through 4D space.  But I assert that my “now” is where I subjectively feel that I am along that (objective) wiggly curve.

I used to know someone, a lowly speed freak from a council estate, who could tell people’s future.  She could read a short distance into the future, and while we were all out that night, she told me about the drama that was unfolding at my home.  When I got home, her story was true.  She didn’t know where I lived, didn’t know any of the people, had no mobile phone, etc.  So, my “wiggly curve” was diffused into “my environment”, even when I wasn’t physically in it.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Fellow Unbelievers:

What makes that Raw Story link above about Benny Johnson and Tim Burchett such a groaner is not just the conspiracy-ology and the reality denial, but also their complete irrelevancy!

You don’t have to deny Barack Hussein Obama’s ontological, biological, taxinomic, sapient, religious, or citizenship status to make a case against his many policy snafus.

Just Obama’s appeasionist stance on the Islamic world and Iran in particular made his foreign policy dangerous. The Mullahs of Iran could not have present nuclear ambitions and have emboldened Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and Syria’s Assad regimes without Obama’s pallets of money. Trump’s half-ass strike on Iran’s nuke facilities during the Twelve-Day War and his continuing hem-haw for a deal are just variations on a theme.

And domestically, Bush and Obama’s bailout of Detroit and Wall Street paved the way for Trump’s symbiosis towards TechBro Trillionaires.

And I can attest that Obama’s Affordable Care Act didn’t live up to it’s claims, not even keeping my Doctors. Two of them with many years of practice ahead of them nevertheless retired shortly after Obamacare passed, no doubt scared of the rightly foreseen outcomes.

Yet MAGA Republicans continue to traffick in conspiracies about Obama’s identity and the latest witches brew from RFK Jr. rather than repealing Obamacare and bringing liberating changes to health care.

It’s going to be a long three years. Hang tight if you can.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

When I sit still, time still moves, as is evidenced by the clock.

Simon, a clock does not measure the movement of Time. It records regular internal changes occurring in a physical (clockwork) system.  Your mind sees the second hand moving and you infer time is flowing. But is not.  Ticking clocks do not indicate time moving. If a clock battery dies, does time stop? Of course not, because it was not moving in the first place

I once jogged 5K in Gulf County, Florida. It took about 30 minutes. I set out when my watch displayed 11:00 am. I crossed the Eastern and Central Time zone boundary. My watch displayed 11:30. The clock on a local building indicated it was 10:30.

Did I travel back in time? Did I run faster than causality? Did I reverse entropy? Was my watch wrong? What would it mean if I stood with one foot either side of the meridian? Do I exist in different time zones?

Answer, none of the above. All that happened was  that I crossed a human-defined boundary that has no bearing on physical reality. The time keeping ledger system being different demonstrated that it is a human invention for practical purposes.  The order of events did not change. My worldline stayed continuous. There is no part of modern physics that notices the boundary because it does not exist.

Time zones exist because railroads in the 19th century needed coordination. Before that, towns kept their own local solar time. So even the idea of “standard time” is a practical invention, not a feature of nature. If time zones reflected something fundamental, then standing with one foot in each time zone would split reality. It doesn’t. It just messes up the paperwork.

“Now” is not a universal property spread across space. The universe doesn’t care where the time zone line is drawn. Only humans do. Our segmentation of our experience of time flow is just a convention. The feeling that clock time reflects a moving reality is mistaken.

[StregaModerator]

@Reg reminds me of a bloke I had lunch with, who claimed he could tell me the exact time any place anywhere, so I asked him what time it was on the moon.  It seemed to perturb him.

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