Sunday School

[jakelafort]

Enco,

Under ordinary circumstances i agree conscription is a prescription for loss of freedom. Really it is fucking risky and no fun if your heart is not in it.

Israel, however, requires it and it is existential. It doesn’t end. Not yet. Constantly under siege. And being under siege has a benefit that might not be apparent. It creates patriotism and toughness where those qualities are needed. That esprit de corps keeps Israelis engenders a selflessness and determination. Meanwhile how many hundreds of IDF have committed suicide? How many suffer mental illness. Of course that very feeling of us against the world that spurs endless questioning that drives the Israelis to innovations including in treatment of mental illness and injuries sustained on the battle field.

[jakelafort]

*Just read what i wrote.

This is my brain on sleep deprivation. Phooey.

[TheEncogitationer]

PopeBesnie:

Another case in point against Trump heading up this War. You know he’s bad off when his own State Media points out how much he sucks:

Trump says it’s an ‘honor’ to keep Strait of Hormuz open for China and other countries
President vows anything that prevents the flow of oil will be hit by US ‘twenty times harder’
https://www.foxnews.com/world/trump-says-its-honor-keep-strait-hormuz-open-china-other-countries

Now TACO stands for “Trump Always China’s Operative”.

[TheEncogitationer]

Jake:

Get your rest and we’ll discuss this more later.

[TheEncogitationer]

Fellow Unbelievers:

I notice something when I started watching a Tucker Carlson video interviewing the Pope/Grand Inquisitor Hopeful Carrie Prejean Boller: A couple of the ads that popped up were actually full-length videos from the Hoover Institute’s “GoodFellas” Podcast and “The Ben Shapiro Show”, and a Stand Together Video, all espousers of decidedly opposite viewpoints from Carlson and Boller.

This made me think: Could this be a way of using YouTube’s ad algorithm to counter the misinformation that comes from these two, without engaging in censorship or even cancellation? Could this technique also be used in other ways such as countering Apologetics or Pseudoscience influencers with pro-Secular pro-Science content? Could it be used as a neutral way of seeing opposing viewpoints on all kinds of subjects? Hmmmm…

Here is the video below. Maybe you’ll see the same things I did or maybe different full-length videos in the ads.

Are Christians Required to Pledge Loyalty to Bibi Netanyahu? Carrie and Tucker Respond.

[PopeBeanie]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Another case in point against Trump heading up this War. You know he’s bad off when his own State Media points out how much he sucks: Trump says it’s an ‘honor’ to keep Strait of Hormuz open for China and other countries

In light of him losing support in USA, I wonder if he’s thought about inviting Xi, Vlad, and other authoritarians to the most exclusive kinds of golf events. He should have enough money to buy an island or two. Maybe Epstein’s.

[TheEncogitationer]

PopeBeanie:

In light of him losing support in USA, I wonder if he’s thought about inviting Xi, Vlad, and other authoritarians to the most exclusive kinds of golf events. He should have enough money to buy an island or two. Maybe Epstein’s.

Mark Twain described golf as “a good walk spoiled.”. Only Trump and Friends could turn a good walk spoiled into The Bataan Death March.

• This reply was modified 1 month ago by TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling

[jakelafort]

Good walk spoiled? Thought it was Harvey Penick. Wa’nt. Wa’nt Twain either. Mark that and fathom that. John Feinstein wrote a book of that title but wa’nt his quote not by a mile. Hittin a ball. Hittin it foul. Hittin it long and straight wipes off that scowl. Why do we care? I can’t say. All of that effort won’t allay the final jar comin our way.

Ya know what really burns my craw? Misattribution of quotes. Long time ago when i was but a grasshopper i was reading an out of print 18th century book and i came upon that famous quote from Kennedy…ask not what your country…

Goddamn that really burned a hole in my soles.

[TheEncogitationer]

Jake:

Now that you’ve got your rest, I can address quotes and our previous topic.

Good walk spoiled? Thought it was Harvey Penick. Wa’nt. Wa’nt Twain either. Mark that and fathom that. John Feinstein wrote a book of that title but wa’nt his quote not by a mile. Hittin a ball. Hittin it foul. Hittin it long and straight wipes off that scowl. Why do we care? I can’t say. All of that effort won’t allay the final jar comin our way.

I admit I can strike out on accurate quote attribution. However, whoever did say “Golf is a good walk spoiled” was correct, Sir and someone should tell Trump before he spends another taxdollar on the game or on the 18 bases on which it’s played.

Ya know what really burns my craw? Misattribution of quotes. Long time ago when i was but a grasshopper i was reading an out of print 18th century book and i came upon that famous quote from Kennedy…ask not what your country…

Goddamn that really burned a hole in my soles.

Sorry to burn your craw. I wouldn’t deliberately touch anyone’s craw without consent.

So who was the Eighteenth Century jerk who made that horrible quote? As Economist Milton Friedman accurately and rightly said a free citizen and a free country do not ask either.

“In a much-quoted passage in his inaugural address, President Kennedy said, “Ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.” It is a striking sign of the temper of our times that the controversy about this passage centered on its origin and not on its content. Neither half of the statement expresses a relation between the citizen and his government that is worthy of the ideals of free men in a free society. The paternalistic “what your country can do for you” implies that government is the patron, the citizen the ward, a view that is at odds with the free man’s belief in his own responsibility for his own destiny. The organismic “what you can do for your country” implies that government is the master or the deity, the citizen, the servant or the votary. To the free man, the country is the collection of individuals who compose it, not something over and above them. He is proud of a common heritage and loyal to common traditions. But he regards government as a means, an instrumentality, neither a grantor of favors and gifts, nor a master or god to be blindly worshipped and served. He recognizes no national goal except as it is the consensus of the goals that the citizens severally serve. He recognizes no national purpose except as it is the consensus of the purposes for which the citizens severally strive.”
― Milton Friedman, Capitalism and Freedom

• This reply was modified 4 weeks, 1 day ago by TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

“what the country has done for each of us, and… what we can do for the country”….source

And….citizens should be “less concerned about what the government can do… and more… what it can do for the nation”…..Warren G. Harding.

[TheEncogitationer]

Reg:

“what the country has done for each of us, and… what we can do for the country”….source

And….citizens should be “less concerned about what the government can do… and more… what it can do for the nation”…..Warren G. Harding.

Alas, this doesn’t give the Eighteenth Century origin of the quote, it just shows how pernicious it’s influence is.

[TheEncogitationer]

Jake:

You were saying earlier, in a state of sleep deprivation:

Under ordinary circumstances i agree conscription is a prescription for loss of freedom. Really it is fucking risky and no fun if your heart is not in it.

Israel, however, requires it and it is existential. It doesn’t end. Not yet. Constantly under siege. And being under siege has a benefit that might not be apparent. It creates patriotism and toughness where those qualities are needed. That esprit de corps keeps Israelis engenders a selflessness and determination. Meanwhile how many hundreds of IDF have committed suicide? How many suffer mental illness. Of course that very feeling of us against the world that spurs endless questioning that drives the Israelis to innovations including in treatment of mental illness and injuries sustained on the battle field.

This is a version of what Economist Henry Hazlitt called The Broken Window Fallacy. This Fallacy is the notion that destruction creates net prosperity in a society’s economy. It is frequently evoked during both natural catastrophes and wars.

Basically. it says that breaking a shop window creates net prosperity in a society’s economy because the shop owner gives $100 to the window glazier to make the window repair. The Fallacy comes in because that is $100 the shop owner cannot spend on buying, making, servicing, or selling a product or service, or on paying workers to do these tasks. And all the ways the shop owner and workers can spend or invest the $100 lose out as well. Destruction only redistributes wealth from one purpose to another; it doesn’t grow net wealth, whether the destruction is from a hurricane or earthquake or rioting or a war, even a just war.

If Israelis and everyone else didn’t have to deal with war, they could direct questioning and innovation and efforts of fighters to pursuits like curing natural ailments, raising and harvesting the bounties of aquaculture, bringing back supersonic commercial flight, beaming uninterrupted solar electricity to Earth from satellites in space, avenues of endless prosperity.

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

Enco: – I can’t find a reference to any similar rhetorical phrasing from the 18th century.

Even if “the wisdom of the wise and the experience of ages may be preserved by quotation.” Issac D’Israeli....who also wrote that:

“The literary treasures of antiquity have suffered from the malice of Men as well as that of Time. It is remarkable that conquerors, in the moment of victory, or in the unsparing devastation of their rage, have not been satisfied with destroying men, but have even carried their vengeance to books.

And if thou watchest the last oozings hours by hours….then here to explore more…

So Jake, I think you might allow JF Kennnedy to claim his antimetabole.

 

 

[TheEncogitationer]

Reg:

Even if “the wisdom of the wise and the experience of ages may be preserved by quotation.” Issac D’Israeli….who also wrote that:

“The literary treasures of antiquity have suffered from the malice of Men as well as that of Time. It is remarkable that conquerors, in the moment of victory, or in the unsparing devastation of their rage, have not been satisfied with destroying men, but have even carried their vengeance to books.”

All that is true and it indeed happened several times at Alexandria from the malice of Roman, Christian, and Muslim haters of written wisdom.

Jake did though say that he seen J.F.K.’s words came in an Eighteenth Century text, earlier than Oliver Wendell Holmes and Warren G. Harding, so my curiosity is piqued.

• This reply was modified 4 weeks ago by TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling

[jakelafort]

I affirm the truth of the matter asserted. My ass read that shit in an old obscure book. It stuck with me because it came as surprise. There were so many old books at my grandparents house yeah on the Jewish side of course. Unless i am reading some well known author or classical author i don’t pay any attention to the author or title. Book i am reading now i can’t tell you title or author without doing research or looking at the book. Same for the one i finished last week.

These search engines ain’t comprehensive. i was photographed in a book titled Spring on Squam and i can’t find any reference to that book on google. I don’t remember the author although i remember talking to him. The title i could hardly forget because i loved that lake and purchased the book. Lost it when i moved. Same lake that is in On Golden Pond.

AI says his speech writer (already forgot his name) wrote that speech and was “coy” about attribution. One might imagine it was because he wanted JFK to be credited with it. My ass wonders. Maybe he read the same goddamn book and thought it expedient to preserve that shit for his political speeches. Also notice how Enco’s economist’s quote indicates it “is a striking sign of the temper of our times that the controversy about this passage centered on its origin and not on its content.”

As for antimetabole that is a new one on me so i am glad my meandering thoughts have unearthed or led to a “new” word. Aint it quite the literary technique? Don’t ask has several connotations. How did it go? Don’t ask. Mom, can i have more salt water taffy? I stopped vomiting half an hour ago already? Don’t ask. Ask not what you can is idk Thomas Painish. A call to arms or patriotism.

War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing! Say it again. The Israelis manage to be innovative and productive in spite of the incessant threats and attacks. Walking on broken windows aint stopped em none. I assume the majority of Israelis both understand and support conscription. Women, men and all able bodied do your duty unless you are an Arab or Haredi but we want you too and hope you will join. When a country is attacked the natural tendency is to have its citizens rally under the flag and volunteer. That tendency is tested and found wanting when there has been a long pax. That does not happen in Israel. If it aint a war it is terrorism. Israelis know they have to fight or they won’t survive. Under those conditions conscription is necessary.

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