Sunday School

[jakelafortParticipant]

It is wild to me and yet unsurprising that Simon who is into ethics/morality and writing a book about it has so little negative reaction to Islam.

Isn’t dedicated to evil? Such a nonquestion. Which religion or political ideology describes itself as dedicated to evil?

Supposed to be making world better place? For whom? 60 yrs old men raping prebuscent girls? Taking over the world is more like it. Yes if they can they will literally take over the world. Other than Jews who will be exterminated i imagine nonmuslims might be able to live as Dhimmis paying their jizya and keeping their eyes averted and head down although that is questionable once their power is unchallenged. Perhaps convert or be executed.

He believes Islam does succeed in some respects by people who don’t suffer its bad effects. I wonder who? I could go on and on with snide comments here but i won’t. On a strong suspicion i looked at mental illness which i can only assume is explosive in the muslim community . Quotes from gigantic health study synopsis follow: Muslims experience the lowest recovery rate from mental health difficulties across all religious groups. Muslims experience the lowest recovery rate from mental health difficulties across all religious groups. Muslims experience the lowest recovery rate from mental health difficulties across all religious groups. Conclusions The main barriers were experienced at the individual level which was dominated by the influence of Islam regarding the cause of mental health difficulties, which also influenced the way in which difficulties were managed. …to the lowest recovery rate of 40.3% for followers of Islam. Poor access rates for Muslims may reflect the strong relationship they have with their Islamic religion that influences the way people from the community interpret what they are exposed to in life [11]. With respect to mental health difficulties, people from Muslim communities may interpret them through aspects of Islam such as reflecting evidence of ‘weakness of faith’ or as a punishment from Allah for incomplete religion or sinful acts. . Furthermore, Muslims may interpret mental difficulties as related to ‘evil eye’, ‘Jinn’ possession or black magic [15]. Hoverer, the stronger a Muslims is in their cultural and Islamic beliefs of psychological problems, the less likely they are to seek mental health services [16]. PRAISE be allah bitch and all of the moronic lefties who enable it!

Ok well i am gonna stop examining the Simonizer. Only humans could take something as straightforward as Islam and turn it into criticism of it is Islamophobia. Keep your fucking mouth shut ya goddamn bigot. In reading and listening to so many accounts of life in Islamic cultures it is even worse than my earlier impressions. Shockingly and impossibly robotic, regulated in the most awful kafkaesque way with antisemitism so virulent and universal that it takes personal knowledge to fully grasp and violence towards youth in madrassas taken for granted, laws so draconian and nightmarishly severe that it is more than a little obvious that ISLAM is the enemy of modernity and humanism.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

It is wild to me and yet unsurprising that Simon who is into ethics/morality and writing a book about it has so little negative reaction to Islam.

I recognise all the criticisms.  But I think there’s more that can be said about Islam than blanket criticism.

I’m interested in the origins of religion and what it’s supposed to be for.  It seems that it’s for governing members of large groups.  Even the tribal Batak of Malaysia, forest-dwelling hunter/gatherers, have their religion that, like Islam, has “moralising high gods” – supernatural beings that govern, punish and reward mortals for following group norms.

For the Batek, living in small bands, trust isn’t an issue.  You tend to know the reputation of everyone you encounter.  But Islam was founded in the era of culturally mixed city states (our own era), so it also helps in trusting people you don’t know.  If someone can convince you they’re a devout Muslim, it follows that they should be able to be trusted in trade.  This has been a successful strategy at various points in history.

[jakelafortParticipant]

I think origins of religion can be understood at first as a way to make the environment intelligible and to gain some semblance of control and order. And then humans being humans power dynamics enter the picture. Pattern recognition had to play a part in the formation of rituals that took on supertitious meaning. And then things unfolded in a mostly viral manner but also with influence from other idiot humans.

But why that is relevant today i am not aware. Why not see ALL religion as anachronistic? The harm/anti-thrive dope is legend. I am not sure we have to be total iconoclasts either. We can have silly little secular rituals and or communing with nature. That is my shit. But to give Islam a pass because of contemporary ideological concerns is misguided.

In terms of trusting Muslims in business i know Saudis have a reputation for being imperious and untrustworthy.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Oh and a silly little manners story…

I had a Muslim guy and his wife consult me and when i met em i went to shake her hand. She just looked at me but the husband FUHREAKED! You do not touch my wife! Went on and on in what was clearly a demonstration of bad manners. He was an asshole entire consultation. Yeah i know interaction with one or two people means between zilch and next to zilch.

But interestingly one of the many horrid results of Islam is the notion that the OTHERS are dirty. I forgot the arabic word but that concept of others being dirty is a consistent Muslim/Arabic theme. Dogs are dirty. Don’t touch em. Jews are dirty. Don’t touch em. I know this is a big time thing in Iran and i assume it is all over middle east. And by the way it was not simply intransigence that caused Arabs to reject a state back in the day. It was a result of their Islamic sensibilities in being the superior tribe. None of em could stomach the idea of dhimmis in a state next to Muslims. And worse when those dhimmis are Jews. Jews had lived in virtual subjugation throughout middle east and having the tables turned was intolerable.

[_Robert_Participant]

I recall in a calculus class three Iranians got caught cheating on a test, got walked out and received ‘Fs’ for the course. One of them was in my study group. I asked him why he cheated. He looked me right in the eye and said it is not considered cheating because this is a college of infidels.

[jakelafortParticipant]

I assume that is why so many Muslim are rapists of Whites in Europe. Women are property and have less value than men and when women are not even Muslims they are fare game. Of course the constant covering of women in freakish costumes that conceal so much skin makes prurient interests manifest.

Ya know when ya think about it the dehumanization of others enables the worst conduct imaginable. Muslims in October in a state of euphoria torturing, raping and murdering Jews. You name the war and the atrocities always seem to be accompanied by racial slurs and varying mythology dehumanizing the other side. Slavery is same way.

And western religions inherently and explicitly dehumanize the others. But lets keep that train running that makes the topic inviolate.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

I know a male dentist in Ireland who saw a patient from Saudi for a wisdom tooth extraction. After the procedure the patient left his sister in the waiting room and said he would be back in 30 minutes as he wanted to get his prescription from the pharmacy. He only left her “alone” as the other 2 patients and the receptionists were female. It transpired that some people had not attended their appointments so the people in the waiting room got earlier slots. The Saudi woman saw the same male dentist as her brother and made no objections as the nurse was female.

About 10 minutes into the procedure her brother barged into the surgery and started shouting at the dentist. “How dare you touch my sister”. He was asked to leave as he was not scrubbed in, but refused and insisted on staying in the room. As the procedure would be finished within a minute it was decided to let him stay.

When he was paying the receptionist, he started ranting to her and was asked to leave the premises or the police would be called. The dentist who relayed the story to me said “All I wanted to say to him was why he had not objected to having a gay atheist man doing his own extraction” 🙂

[jakelafortParticipant]

Reg, that was a good anecdote.

[jakelafortParticipant]

The gay dentist made me think of a friend of mine who unfortunately died. Was a gay/atheist dentist from bible belt born into a sickeningly Christian family. So he told me he was more afraid to tell him mom he was an atheist than that he was gay. But neither revelation was pleasant.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

_Robert_ wrote:

I asked him why he cheated. He looked me right in the eye and said it is not considered cheating because this is a college of infidels.

This is a fault in human nature – our in-group bias.  Morality is a group-wide thing and no further (for highly parochial groups).  Therefore: 1) other groups’ morals are invalid; 2) people in other groups are not taken seriously as moral beings and so our morality doesn’t apply to them.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

I assume that is why so many Muslim are rapists of Whites in Europe. Women are property and have less value than men and when women are not even Muslims they are fare game.

Yes, this is the excuse given by the Muslim “rape gangs” who exploit young girls in the UK.  (Other rape gangs are available – the phenomenon is not restricted to Muslims.)  Western girls are “trash” because they are free / don’t wear burqas / etc.

[_Robert_Participant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

_Robert_ wrote:

I asked him why he cheated. He looked me right in the eye and said it is not considered cheating because this is a college of infidels.

This is a fault in human nature – our in-group bias. Morality is a group-wide thing and no further (for highly parochial groups). Therefore: 1) other groups’ morals are invalid; 2) people in other groups are not taken seriously as moral beings and so our morality doesn’t apply to them.

Islam is the most dangerous source of group bias and is at fault here. Claims to be the last religion and unlike Christianity does not “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s”, but instead forces theocracy. You do see the difference, right?

[jakelafortParticipant]

Following is a link to story about a Bedouin Muslim Israeli who had the integrity and bravery to do the right thing. Incredibly heroic and ballsy.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-819071

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

This is a fault in human nature – our in-group bias.

I agree but I think there is a bigger picture to look at here. In-group bias evolved as a survival mechanism. Favoring those within one’s own group lead to more cohesive and cooperative units, enhancing group survival against external threats. It allowed us to protect our territory and resources and build up trust between members as we watched out for each other. This trust relationship is likely where our ethical behavior and moral standards first took root.

But we were a lot more ignorant than we are now (Stephen Colbert once said “I think some of us are getting stupider more).  We assigned gods to everything we did not understand. Animism was the start of religious belief. It came to be exploited by those who were a little smarter when they figured out that an in-group can be easily lead in any direction.

In a modern setting in-group bias hinders objective decision-making, promotes unfair treatment of people based on group membership, (us vs them) which escalates into prejudice and exclusion. In a globalized world, where cooperation and understanding across diverse groups is crucial, in-group bias is a detrimental trait that undermines social harmony and equality.

In short, I guess in-group bias was a lot more useful for our survival than it is now where it is used to divide and conquer. It is more of a fault now that it was in our more primitive days.

All religions, intentionally or not, are responsible for creating in-group bias. Islam is the currently the worst poisoner on the human mind. I see nothing “Islamophobic” in saying that. I am only pointing out what is patently obvious to anyone that can look objectively at events in the world. Anyone of the billions of people who disagree with me I am now accusing them all of being “truthphobic”.  At least that is what that in-group looks like to me.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

@jakelafort – A very good smartphone would tell you that O’Brien and Dettori score a treble tonight with Greenfinch, Mountain Bear and Chief Little Rock.

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