BeckyL

[BeckyL]

Unseen wrote:

In the meantime, rather than taking people who land on ThinkAtheist.com to the AtheistZone.com homepage, take them to a page explaining that if they came here from Twitter, they should know that we are not associated with the Think Atheist Twitter page and deplore its contents. And of course also have a link to our homepage.

I think this is the best way to deal with it. If you decide you want a Twitter account, maybe you could use AtheistZone since that is the name of the new site?

[BeckyL]

@steveinco I know. If it gets that bad, I will have to rethink the situation. For now, I won’t throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.

[BeckyL]

@mammonista I get what you’re saying, and while I have never met a scientologist (not knowingly, anyway) or a voodoo-ist, I have known a number of mormons with whom it is safe to say I am friends. Their beliefs don’t bother me in the least as long as they aren’t foisting them off on me. Now, would I marry one? No. I didn’t marry a theist either. I married an agnostic with whom I agreed. And he and I changed, as people often do, over a number of years. And we are currently in serious disagreement over this issue. Is he irrational on the subject. He is right now. Is he irrational on any other subject? Nope. Is this the most important of all subjects? Perhaps it is the most important subject for you. And that’s fine for you. It is not the most important subject for me. It is a very important subject. I will not deny that. But the assertion that this is the most important of all subjects is yours, not mine. I have no problem with living with his theism with one caveat: I expect the same respect from him.

[BeckyL]

@tonidatyga Yes. I can well imagine. 🙂

@mammonista I applaud you for holding fast to your convictions. I do believe that the best way to loosen the grip of religion and thereby hasten it’s extinction is for non-believers to be bold and demonstrate that religion is unnecessary. The reasons that many of us have for remaining “in the closet” are often not as simple as all that. I failed to mention in my bio that I am married to a theist. When we married, we were both in the agnostic camp and in agreement. Later, my agnosticism drifted more to the atheistic side until it became just plain atheism. He, on the other hand, drifted more toward the theistic side – probably owing to some degree to his fundamentalist (Southern Baptist) upbringing. We found ourselves disagreeing on the subject more and more. Up until recently, we simply agreed to disagree and avoided discussing our divergent feelings on religion. (It is worth noting that this is a second marriage for both of us and the raising of children is not an issue. He raises his and I raise mine without interference.) Unfortunately, this detente recently came to a head, and it remains to be seen whether we can salvage anything or not. His dream is that we would happily attend church and have church friends and a church “family”. My dream is that we can just be happy without all of that church-y playacting (and regardless what anyone may think about their church friends and church family, there is some playacting involved in maintaining that church-y image.) I tell you all of this because I can certainly see why so many atheists keep a low profile and hide their convictions from even their closest family members. Some people are willing to publicly declare themselves, damn the torpedoes. Others simply find the price to be too high.

[BeckyL]

Hi, Mickey! I did the New Age thing too – Shamanic journeying and the like. I was also involved in energy healing, first as a Christian and later as part of my pagan practices. I was told that I was particularly gifted as a healer, but I stopped when it was apparent that it wasn’t doing anything to help my mother with cancer. (She initially got better, but when they changed her chemotherapy due to side effects, she became much worse and later died. There is no doubt in my mind that the chemotherapy was responsible for her improvement and that stopping it led to her death. My woo-woo efforts didn’t do shit.) I still do yoga and meditation, although I no longer do them for spiritual reasons. Instead, I use them for joint flexibility/strength and to relax. (Sam Harris is a proponent of meditation for secularists and has some guided meditations on his website which are great for stress reduction. http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/mindfulness-meditation )

[BeckyL]

@DrBob – I think it has something to do with the misconception that atheists are amoral or “just want to sin.” After all, I work in a helping profession that is often compared to “angels of mercy” and so forth. But, I don’t think I would be fired for those reasons, at least not ostensibly. I should hope they are conscious enough of the EEOC to avoid that. However, I do believe the theists whom I work among would use it against me. Hospitals are a very political work environment, and I am in a management position. My current shift mates know my thoughts on the subject of religion and don’t care, but I have worked among others who were very vocal about their beliefs and were quick to judge patients and other nurses on that foundation. They even argued among themselves about who was the better Christian. *gag* The displays of ignorance when a patient came in wearing a hijab were painful to witness as was the bragging that one coworker’s son was in a Christian school and wouldn’t be exposed to evolution. He plans to pursue a science career in college… One of the ER doctors does a lot of missionary work and has a clinic in a nearby city wherein he provides care only to those who are willing to sit through a sermon first. I suppose he has a right to do so based on the fact that he doesn’t charge them for medical treatment, but I don’t think that is a particularly moral way to behave. I also find his bragging about all the “good” he does to be offensive. If he knew I was an atheist, I would have to either deal with his proselytizing or would run the risk of his finding fault with everything I said or did if I rebuffed his efforts to “save” me. Neither option is particularly appealing, so I content myself with throwing his newsletters away. (His newsletters are advertisements of how much happier the subjects of his missionary work are after “finding Jesus” – I’m sure the food, clean water, and healthcare have absolutely nothing to do with it. He also points out in them that he is responsible for spreading all of this “good news.”) I believe that my lack of belief is more moral than the provisional care offered by this doctor’s missionary work or the religious intolerance practiced behind the Muslim patients’ backs.

[BeckyL]

@simonm Me too. I live in a “Bible Belt” part of the country, so it’s sad but not surprising.

@PopeBeanie I didn’t know we could link to the old profile. And, yes. I do have comprehensive knowledge of the self-delusion necessary to faith.

[BeckyL]

I agree. Once you take a public position that makes a moral judgment, your morals become open to scrutiny. I also agree that when the person making those moral judgments is heterosexual, infidelity is free game. I look forward to the day when one’s sexuality is a non-issue, but until then, people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

[BeckyL]

Paul wrote:

I’d be afraid for my life if I was openly atheist in rural Texas. Those people are horrible.

I’m not particularly open about it. If anyone asks, I usually deflect. People really aren’t all that interested in hearing about other people, so I ask them about themselves. I am keenly aware that it is something I could lose my job over.

[BeckyL]

@Strega and @Simon Thanks!

[BeckyL]

Unseen wrote:

Women who shoulder their way through life and step on others are thought of as bitches. Men who do so aren’t off the hook, though. They are thought of as bastards.

Maybe. I don’t think they are vilified in the same way though.

[BeckyL]

Unseen wrote:

BeckyL wrote:

@Unseen – I wonder if maybe women seem more susceptible to “woo” because at least the woo-ish people listen to them. Maybe women are into science-y things too, but maybe science-y guys aren’t giving them a chance.

But most of the woo-ish listeners are likely to be female as well.

Males live in a culture where you make chances for yourself. The women who succeed tend to be those who adapt to and adopt this sort of culture.

You won’t find any disagreement here. I am a champ at making chances for myself and I learned early on that being lady-like in the sense that “ladies shouldn’t make a fuss” doesn’t do me any favors. The trade off is that by using male tactics, I am perceived to be a ball-buster and a bitch… for behaving exactly the same way as my male counterparts. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been told that I shouldn’t be so plain-spoken. On the other hand, experts on career advancement tell women that they should be plain-spoken in order to be heard and to get results. It’s a catch-22 for women. And, if you are fighting that sort of battle all of the time at work, do you really want to fight that battle when the discussion turns to atheism or when you are discussing science (supposing those areas aren’t your line of work)? I think for many women, the answer is no. It’s just easier to be quiet. Are there more men who are atheists than there are women? Personally, I doubt it, but until it is more comfortable for women to speak up, it’s difficult to know for sure.

[BeckyL]

I was raised in a traditional patriarchal family where my thoughts on many subjects were treated with condescension at best and mocked at worst. (For example, I asked for an erector set for Christmas one year and got a doll instead because erector sets are for boys. My parents thought it was cute that I asked for the erector set but were sure I didn’t really want it.) It would be easy to say that my family is an anomaly, but I’ve found that similar attitudes have carried over into my adult life. Almost every day, I come across situations where I struggle to have someone who will listen to me, but when a male coworker says the exact same thing I just said, it’s like the sun shines out of his ass. And I work in a female-dominated profession. I can only imagine what women in traditionally male professions deal with. So, women often learn to keep their opinions to themselves, especially when it comes to topics that provoke as much emotion as religion. My mother was a lifelong agnostic, but I am willing to bet that if you asked my dad about my mom’s beliefs, he would swear her beliefs were just like his. @Unseen – I wonder if maybe women seem more susceptible to “woo” because at least the woo-ish people listen to them. Maybe women are into science-y things too, but maybe science-y guys aren’t giving them a chance.

[BeckyL]

@erock68la Thanks! 🙂

[BeckyL]

@DrBob Hello! I did some lurking for a while over at TA and always appreciated reading your contributions to the fora. It’s good to “meet” you.

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