Analyze this, baby!

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This topic contains 90 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Autumn 2 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 91 total)
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  • #42081

    Davis
    Moderator

    Autumn is completely right about the shit-cake of fans. In most of European top-tier football (remember once again, that place where the thousands of gay players of which none are out of the closet), most teams, at least in Western Europe, after interviews find fellow players mostly indifferent to or actively wanting players to come out to show their support and have diversity on their team. Same with some managers, football associations, club organisers etc. The closeted players are far far less worried about lock-room awkwardness and most teammates but rightfully utterly terrified of the shit-cake that are a notable portion of football fans. They can truly be the utter trash of Western Europe. At best are just those who use “fag” on an hourly basis as a loose insult to one another (stop being such a fucking fag) to the kind of English fans who became vitriolic monsters when Englands two black football players missed scoring during the Eurocup finals penalties. So yeah, along the lines of what Autumn is getting at, I wouldn’t put much stock in the attitudes of fans on anything to do with any topic on race, class, gender, sexuality. I would say things are more complicated in North America (where fans in some parts can be a little less gross and where closeted players in some parts are genuinely afraid of how teammates would react).

    What you should worry about more is what is fair:

    People don’t seem to have much of a problem with trans-people participating in sports until they start winning. Is it fair to be open to their participation until they start winning medals?

    #42082

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Reg,

    @Encog, Sometimes even sending lawyers, guns and money don’t work when the shit has hit the fan 🙂

    In today’s world, with all the “Excitable” people of all sexes and genders, you need legal counsel for anything of consequence, even if your “hair is…perfect.” 🐺😁

    #42083

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Autumn,

    If it’s any solace, I always raise Hell against all these sweetheart deals at taxpayer’s expense that cities extend to sports team owners. They benefit the owners, the team members, the contractors who construct the arenas, and maybe an overpriced vendor or two, but for every other business in the city and for the individual taxpayer, it is a net loss.

    Hell, the taxpayer doesn’t even get free tickets with the tax or utility bill to show for it, and choice tickets can run into the $$$Hundreds!

    It’s all Roman-style “Bread and Circuses” to me and best left off our already-groaning tax and debt burden.

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Added "individual" to taxpayer, since businesses pay also
    #42084

    @Encog, My attorney once gave me good advice back in the day and I still have all my hair.

     Sounds like big trouble. You’re going to need plenty of legal advice before this thing is over. As your attorney, I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top. And you’ll need the cocaine. Tape recorder for special messages. Acapulco shirts. Get the hell out of L.A. for at least 48 hours.

    Later I sacked him and now I keep my own counsel until I understand what I am talking about 🙂

    #42086

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Fellow Unbelievers,

    She should have just played this on her smartphone and said: “And any and all exceptions are people too, whacka-do, whacka-do, whacka-dooooo!”

    #42090

    Unseen
    Participant

    @unseen I don’t see how responding “I am not a biologist” is a bad answer….maybe I just don’t get it. What do you think she should have said? Sorry just trying to understand the issue here

    Let’s put it one way: If she doesn’t know what a woman is, is SHE a woman or should we call a biologist? Biden nominated her to be the first black woman justice. Is there some doubt now in her own mind that she fulfills that condition?

    It’s right-wing “the old way is the best way” word-witchery. The Senator was going to give her a hard time no matter how she answered. She probably wanted to drag Ketanji into the question that’s being discussed here: trans athletes. She avoided that trap but fell into another. She was in a classic no-win situation.

    #42091

    Autumn
    Participant

    @Encog, My attorney once gave me good advice back in the day and I still have all my hair. Sounds like big trouble. You’re going to need plenty of legal advice before this thing is over. As your attorney, I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top. And you’ll need the cocaine. Tape recorder for special messages. Acapulco shirts. Get the hell out of L.A. for at least 48 hours.

    Later I sacked him and now I keep my own counsel until I understand what I am talking about 🙂

    Did you keep in touch after, or was he done and gonzo?

    #42092

    Unseen
    Participant

    Autumn, If it’s any solace, I always raise Hell against all these sweetheart deals at taxpayer’s expense that cities extend to sports team owners. They benefit the owners, the team members, the contractors who construct the arenas, and maybe an overpriced vendor or two, but for every other business in the city and for the individual taxpayer, it is a net loss. Hell, the taxpayer doesn’t even get free tickets with the tax or utility bill to show for it, and choice tickets can run into the $$$Hundreds! It’s all Roman-style “Bread and Circuses” to me and best left off our already-groaning tax and debt burden.

    Depends on how broadly one defines gains and losses. For many a sports fan, being able to go to games in a nice arena is a big plus. Portland, where I live, has a very popular soccer team, and the bars and convenience stores for maybe 10 blocks in any direction from the arena do heavy business on game days, business that eventually becomes taxes.

    #42093

    Unseen
    Participant

    Question: If we let athletes who are in most physical senses male compete in women’s sports, should we let women compete in the Special Olympics if they feel like a handicapped person in a female body?

    Maybe we need an Others Olympics for athletes who are trans or tick the “Other” box when a form asks for their gender.

    #42094

    Unseen
    Participant

    Here’s one for the sports lovers: Why not just do away with gendered sports and sports teams? Have football, baseball, basketball, soccer/football, rugby, rowing teams where the athletes are accepted purely on physical ability and gender isn’t even considered. If that means that a lot of women don’t get to play, then them’s the breaks, as they say.

    Wouldn’t that work? If not, why not?

    #42095

    Autumn
    Participant

    Autumn, If it’s any solace, I always raise Hell against all these sweetheart deals at taxpayer’s expense that cities extend to sports team owners. They benefit the owners, the team members, the contractors who construct the arenas, and maybe an overpriced vendor or two, but for every other business in the city and for the individual taxpayer, it is a net loss. Hell, the taxpayer doesn’t even get free tickets with the tax or utility bill to show for it, and choice tickets can run into the $$$Hundreds! It’s all Roman-style “Bread and Circuses” to me and best left off our already-groaning tax and debt burden.

    That’s the thing of it. It’s an entertainment business with romanticized trappings of sportsmanship and blah blah blah. Which is not to suggest no athletes live up to the better aspects of sport, but when it comes to certain issues in sports that overlap with the wedge issues of the day, we get all philosophical about fairness and ideals in sports that hardly exist outside of little league in the first place. What we end up with is a weird blur of public policy and business practices that seems to be a hot mess altogether.

     

    #42096

    jakelafort
    Participant

    I am afraid Ysumlin blew the scene. I defy anyone to catch up with that reference. Popular Zevon is candy for a 50 sumpin baby.

    #42097

    Unseen
    Participant

    @davis

    Yeah, I think Europe has a bigger vulgar/bigot fan problem than the U.S. just like Europe has a bigger racism problem than the U.S., where demonstrations demanding the expatriation of Muslims or Africans or whatever virtually never happens. Hooliganism is a rarity here, and while the occasional individual may yell something demeaning or throw an object at a player, usually the other fans will hold them until stadium security arrives to cart them out of the stadium.

    As for people only getting upset when trans athletes win, that’s not true. When my daughter was young, parents were militant about their perceptions of fairness. The trans question didn’t come up but a unusually large girl in a certain category might have parents consulting with coaches asking, “Are you sure about Ellie Schmitt’s age? She seems awfully overdeveloped for a 14 year old.” A very boyish girl is likely to engender similar concerns.

    I’m not a dyed-in-the-wool sports fan, so I can ask (as I did in another post), why do we even bother with gendered sports anyway. Only take the best performing athletes for the team and don’t even look at their gender.

    That would be fair, right?

    #42098

    I was once asked by a group of guys in a bar what team I supported. I replied “I don’t follow any team”. I overheard one of them say “Oh, he is not one of us”. No, thankfully I am not and I don’t ever want to be…..

    #42099

    @autumn – Yes, but I still hunt great sharks 🙂

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