Are there dangerous ideas?

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This topic contains 65 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Reg the Fronkey Farmer 3 weeks, 3 days ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 66 total)
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  • #32974

    Unseen
    Participant

    With the American 1st amendment its pretty hard to believe that could ever happen in the USA.

    True, but remember that the 1st Amendment is also the Amendment that protects freedom of/from religion. It’s called “the establishment clause” of the 1st Amendment.

    #32975

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Davis, you have made me think of a truly dangerous idea.

    Trump lies most of the time. His life is a lie. His persona is a lie. Nearly every assertion he makes is a lie. And his lies are not within the art of the possible. Those lies can be easily corroborated as lies. He has normalized lying without shame or suffering consequences.

    Religions require their adherents to have Faith in their lies. No need for evidence. Accept authority. Facts that contravene religious lies be damned. Blasphemy! Faith is as we all know a dangerous suspension of reality. It is a willful immersion into fantasy and infantilism. Among truly pious faith in the lies of their books and preachers are the only reality. For other adherents there is a compartmentalization. Two worlds, not one. The moderates reconcile the fantasy and reality or wall off the one from the other.

    For roughly 1/3 of American adults the normalization of bald-faced lying is apparent. Trump has introduced a most dangerous lie. My truth. Your truth. Trump’s truth. Truth is subjective. Truth is what is politically expedient. Lies of denigration and superiority. Nazi lies. White supremacy lies. The penumbra cast by the normalcy of Trump’s lying can produce or lead to fascism. It can lead to a culture of anti-science, or to theocracy or to …

    #32976

    Davis
    Participant

    Indeed Jake. We seemed to have seriously utterly missed the giant 1km tall elephant on the planet: religion. The most fucking dangerous idea ever to curse our solar system (perhaps even the galaxy or the universe). I love to think that there are planets or moons (or whatever) out there where intelligent beings emerged without building up so many dangerous ideas (divine beings in the sky, human deamons who turn into snakes, moons that will crash into the ocean one day, albinos who are posessed and must be mob beaten, lightening bolts that signal the Gods disfavour, tragedies inflicted by the great beings who are displeased with human’s sexual activities, leaders of a religion certain they must massacre those with  trivial theological disagreements…and so on…and so on…and so on…ad infinitum….ad nauseum.

    And yet still…as horrifically dangerous (threatening to our very lives itself) as this idea is…I’d say prohibiting it would be as bad as that idea itself.

    • This reply was modified 4 weeks ago by  Davis.
    #32978

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Am I being mindful enough?

    In mindfulness, you’re not supposed to keep on thinking of reasons to feel guilty.  You’re supposed to anchor yourself to the present moment, without ranging over the past or future.  Any amount of that is good enough, in the present moment.

    #32980

    Unseen
    Participant

    Am I being mindful enough?

    In mindfulness, you’re not supposed to keep on thinking of reasons to feel guilty. You’re supposed to anchor yourself to the present moment, without ranging over the past or future. Any amount of that is good enough, in the present moment.

    When people start doing what they’re supposed to do, let me know.

    #32981

    Unseen
    Participant

    Indeed Jake. We seemed to have seriously utterly missed the giant 1km tall elephant on the planet: religion. The most fucking dangerous idea ever to curse our solar system (perhaps even the galaxy or the universe).

    That’s a very broad brush you’re using there. Islam and evangelical Christianity are at one end, but relatively inoffensive religions like Theravada Buddhism and Unitarian Universalism and Quakerism lie at the other.

    #32985

    Davis
    Participant

    That’s a very broad brush you’re using there. Islam and evangelical Christianity are at one end, but relatively inoffensive religions like Theravada Buddhism and Unitarian Universalism and Quakerism lie at the other.

    Theravada Bhuddists have held two religious wars in the last few decades (and extremely violent attack against Hindus in Sri Lanka and a vicious campaign against the Rohinga in Burma. In both those countries countries the Bhuddist “church” takes away the little money people have so monks can pray and build their fabulous temples. It is little better in Cambodia. In fact, except for Sir Lanka (and only to a lesser extent) Therevada countries have turned out nothing but dictatorships for the last few decades with extremely violently repressive regimes. Just because they are gentle in parts of their religious life (though certainly not all) does not mean it is not a dangerous idea.

    Quakerism is certainly a lot more peaceful but they are an extremely misogynistic society, they let their children die of simple diseases and hold back education and the progressive rights of women and LGTBQ+.

    Unitarian Universalism is barely a religion in the classical sense and hardly even in the modern sense. It is much closer to an ideology, though that isn’t to say there aren’t a fairly large number of kookey people in the organization, though I would agree in terms of the dangerous of ideas, I would put them at the very bottom end. So there you go, the few rare exceptions that define the rule.

    #32986

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    When people start doing what they’re supposed to do, let me know.

    There are no mistakes in mindfulness, in the sense that one’s behaviour is not judged as wrong.  There are only unskilful actions or paths, that lead to less than optimal outcomes.

    That voice telling you to feel guilty, is your thinking ego mind.  It monitors your status, moral identity, well being, etc., 24/7.  The whole point of meditation is to go beyond the thinking mind to pure experience of the present moment.

    #32987

    jakelafort
    Participant

    I guess i did not communicate effectively. A most dangerous idea is the normalization of playing fast and loose with objective truth. Your truth, my truth, Trump’s truth. Few in their right mind (who have not been indoctrinated) would deny the danger that religion poses. Faith is the ugly engine that enables religious lies.

    Presently there is in the USA a sort of erosion of what is already a very religious nation in which faith plays a significant role. It is astonishing how the prez lies with impunity. Even the democrats are so inured to his endless enfilade of BS that it hardly raises an eyebrow. Trump pontificates without the benefit of having the public baptized in faith. Perhaps his base has implicit faith in him. The republican enablers have Machiavellian faith in him. Outside of those elements the level of discourse has degenerated. Even his pet words within his limited vocabulary are used excessively.

    That is a very dangerous state of affairs. Clearly if he stays in power the danger of outright fascism is strong. But even if he does not serve a second term or become a dictator he has altered the culture of what is acceptable in communication. The fewer the barriers to honest discourse the greater the danger of political collapse and persecution of vulnerable groups.

    #32988

    jakelafort
    Participant

    *the fewer the barriers to dishonest discourse…

    I got lyme brain

    #32989

    Unseen
    Participant

    NO ACTIVITY FOR A WHOLE DAY!!!

    #32996

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    NO ACTIVITY FOR A WHOLE DAY!!!

    Personally, I’ve been working (again, like annually now) at keeping my California air breathable. I have an array now of face masks from quick and dirty to a full face covering “snorkel mask” hooked via CPAP tubing to a plastic milk carton with a section cut out to hold sturdy a large section of HEPA vacuum cleaner bag. (Sounds really kludgy, which it is, but it works very well and I treasure it as a possible life-saving device. It also fits well into a backpack.)

    Last night I also had to leak-proof the HEPA filter kludged to my CPAP machine so I could sleep safely with windows and front door open to allow my apartment to cool off overnight to a tolerable degree. Running my very large (as in 5-inch thick) HEPA filter on a 20″ box fan 24/7 indoors now, too. Just another kludge that’s very convenient and health-saving.

    Anyways, a couple suggestions wrt “dangerous idea”: 1) President Nasty himself is a dangerous idea, or should I say his election is; 2) The idea that “masks don’t work” (which I am STILL seeing written by some Freedumb-oriented Libertarians).

    However, except for flagging anti-expert comments like that in the local paper’s commenting section (so they can be removed by a moderator even if they can be technically considered to be exercises of “free speech” in our dystopian political climate), and other than hoping an ungodly, oversized private social media company like Facebook can use good judgement while determining who to censor or flag with warnings of suspicious veracity… what can we actually do to solve this epidemic of health-risking gullibility? I keep falling back to feeling that the only thing we can do is find new ways to reach children in their formative years of learning how to detect bullshit and improve their social and cognitive skills, so they might eventually blossom into channels of enlightenment for the future of humanity. Like magic, right?

    Meanwhile I also came here because this is the loneliest I’ve felt since hormones hit me in my teens. Also meanwhile, I may have another chance soon to don my best breathing apparatus, take the elevator up to the 5th story of a local parking structure, and look out over a deserted city. Interesting that, in spite of moderate levels of smoke, people have been desperate enough to get out and socialize such that they’re still out there in outside stalls set up in the streets downtown at bars and restaurants, mostly without masks, of course, at least until they’re back on their feet and moving around on the streets and sidewalks.

    #32998

    Unseen
    Participant

    Few ideas have proven more fruitful and yet more dangerous than the Theory of Relativity.

    #32999

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    How can it be dangerous?

    Stephen Hawking said that a theory is a good one when it generates more knowledge.

    #33001

    The most dangerous (stupid, moronic) idea I have heard recently was to force students to attend lectures in Universities in Georgia. My niece went back home after a day because very few students were wearing masks or making any attempt at social distancing. She informed me today that over 50 cases were reported in her University.

    Same in many of the local schools because a Republican is in charge. He is a foul human.

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