David Silverman (Adult Content)

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This topic contains 54 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  PopeBeanie 3 weeks ago.

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  • #28405

    _Robert_
    Participant

    #28411

    jakelafort
    Participant

    In terms of being an activist and ready to confront theists he is bueno.

    But that tape in which he does the age old thing of  perpetuating the conflation of Jews with Jewish religion  is BS.  Jews are as much an ethnic group as any other and genetically/culturally perhaps more than most.  No other group to my knowledge is known exclusively as the predominant religion.  If you are not Anglican you are still English.  If you are not catholic or protestant you are still Irish. You get the point.  Unfortunately the Nazis did not make the same error as Silverman and exclude Jewish buddhists or Jewish atheists.

    I went to one of his talks and he made a mistake in referring to apostates as converts. I told him after the talk that the appropriate word is deconverted since atheism is not a belief system. I know that is a minor thing. But the perpetuation of Jewish conflation with religion is not a small thing.

    #28433

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Besides Silverman; Lawrence Krauss, Michael Shermer, Richard Carrier, Ben Radford and Neil deGrasse Tyson…. all accused of sexual misconduct.

    The American Atheists organization has certainly had a tumultuous history with the murder of founder Madalyn Murray O’Hair and family. She was an impressive force for reason.

    #28434

    Davis
    Participant

    While some of those guys are great thinkers and I admire how they have tried to spread the principles of humanism and rationalthinking in brilliant ways…after all these allegations (multiple ones for most of them) and their less than inspiring responses…at the very very least a few of them must be true. The rate of false allegations is really low. And the consequences to the women who make these allegations are high, even when it is true or even proven. Some of them must be true. Yet many people who profess to humanist principles defend these guys…cause they are their humanist or scientific or atheist heros. Which shows that being atheist says nothing about being enlightened. A fact I wish “new atheists” would get into their thick skulls.

    #28436

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    And then I spit into her mouth. [possibly paraphrased]

    I’m clueless about how an attraction to humiliation during sexual encounters could have evolved. Even homosexuality and pedophilia seem (to me) more easily explained as natural variations of sexual and violent behavior that cultures can learn to live with, or limit when everyone can see or deduce what everyone else is doing. We evolved when face-to-face interaction in the group was the norm, but now most people can do things privately they wouldn’t do in public.

    So we have the need for some SJW/atheists fighting back against uber-religious culture, and some unfortunate failures in justice, when the only witnesses are the private parties themselves.

    It seems (to me) Silverman is most likely a victim of 1) religious convictions rampant in society and 2) the strange and sometimes risky things that can happen while in private, to remain hidden. But my very first impression of him, long ago, is that he was a dick. As wrong as it probably was, it doesn’t surprise me that people wanted to go after him.

    We’ll need more atheists as long as social prejudices so easily default to traditional, mob or authoritarian rule. In any case, when atheists drop out or get kicked out like Silverman, other atheists should grab a baton and run with it.

    (I apologize for not wording more carefully, above. I do NOT mean to lump various sexual categories into one moral category. I do not judge, except in cases of childhood damage from pedophilia, and even then I feel it’s one of a few human flaws that we all need to learn the evolutionary cause of, and mitigate via cultural means and laws. NOT so, for homosexual behavior, but yes so, for any unconsented sexual or aggressive behavior.)

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by  PopeBeanie. Reason: apology added
    #28454

    Unseen
    Participant

    Besides Silverman; Lawrence Krauss, Michael Shermer, Richard Carrier, Ben Radford and Neil deGrasse Tyson…. all accused of sexual misconduct. The American Atheists organization has certainly had a tumultuous history with the murder of founder Madalyn Murray O’Hair and family. She was an impressive force for reason.

    As for the sexual misconduct allegations, have any of them been proven? I’m sure some/most/all of them are true but as long as some/most/all might be innocent, we have little choice but to go with “innocent until proven guilty,” right?

    That said, the notion that adulation/talent/wealth somehow makes a guy attractive to all women is a flaw in the male characters which is just now being addressed with the #MeToo movement.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  Unseen.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  Unseen.
    #28457

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Unseen, do you mean to say flaw in females?

    #28458

    Unseen
    Participant

    Unseen, do you mean to say flaw in females?

    No, it’s a notion that seems to be in the male mind. A notion that because I am adulated, talented, or wealthy all women should thereby find me attractive. However, I should add that enough women respond favorably to adulation, talent, and wealth to feed that notion. That being said, it does not entitle any man to try to parlay those things into anything sexual.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  Unseen.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  Unseen.
    #28462

    jakelafort
    Participant

    I got ya Unseen.

    A greater percentage of women are persuaded by those factors. Just as Trump said…ya grab em by the pussy.  He knows.

    Fortunately it is not all women.

    #28463

    Jody Lee
    Participant

    A greater percentage of women are persuaded by those factors.
    Woah. There are shallow men and women. But to assume that more women than not are persuaded by wealth and adulation? ….I disagree.

    #28465

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Jody Lee, I don’t have stats or experiments to verify my assertion about women. But it seems axiomatic.  Sports stars have so many women proposition them. Wealthy men who have one foot in heaven are with women one quarter their age who could be maxim model.  etc.

    Ya think lady Trump would have chosen Trump if he were a ditch digger without resources?

    #28466

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Men are most attracted to women who are sexually attractive.  Having the trappings is not as important for men as it is for women.

    Obviously the all men/all women is not true. The most that can be done is generalize.  And perhaps there are cultures where the general rules are inapplicable.

    #28467

    During an interview the British comedian Caroline Aherne once asked this question of the wife of a famous magician –

    “So what first attracted you to the millionaire Paul Daniels?”

     

    #28468

    Davis
    Participant

    Obviously the all men/all women is not true. The most that can be done is generalize.  And perhaps there are cultures where the general rules are inapplicable.

    Indeed. Most of the toxic scum-thinking that comes out of modern online sexism (like Men Going their own Way, pick up artists, so called “men’s rights activists”) base most their arguments on the premise that:

    Women want to date dicks. They want muscly alpha males who have other exceptional qualities based on the luck of the genetic lottery: x, y and z. Still in the mean time they will pretend to like lesser guys and lead them on and friend-zone them until an alpha male dick comes along.

    This leads to these kinds of guys viewing women as manipulative succubi. They say they want a nice guy but want an asshole. That the only way to get with women is be a dick and possibly be an agressive even rapey dick. More disturbing, that the only way for nerdy unattractive guys to score with hot girls is for them to band together and enforce their rights to have sex with them. Along with it also comes the justification of assault, harassment and even rape and the dismissal of claims of rape and assault. It also leads to a vitriolic hate of frat-boys and “players” and extreme feelings of self-loathing and inadequacy. In the worst cases it leads to these guys taking a gun and getting revenge on these women through a mass shooting or mass murder spree as has happened several times in Canada and the USA.

    And it’s all based on a: “women want this” assumption. As though they all equally want one thing. And that thing is totally what I say it is. And I’m not exaggerated or overgeneralizing.

    It’s true to some extent, as Jake pointed out, in Western culture men are known to express their likes and their attractions in ways different to women but as always, things are far more complex, we don’t always even understand or express our attractions and experiences well and these kinds of generalizations are difficult to form, tentative at best and can be extremely toxic when taken to extremes.

    #28469

    Davis
    Participant

    The same goes the other way around. With some women hiding their own personality, career, goals and dreams from a prospective partner under the assumption that guys want a woman less intelligent than them, making less money and having a less assertive influence over major relational decision. Of course, these guys exists and in theory, there is nothing even wrong with that if both partners honestly and sincerely wish to and enjoy playing their own roles in this way…but it is hardly a generalization worth taking seriously in the Western world and a lot of harm comes from many (though not all) phrases that begins with “Men want………”

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