Failed Conversion

[Dang Martin]

I had an experience that many claim to be proof of the existence of a god.

24 years ago, I got carjacked at gunpoint by a twitchy crack addict. He said, “I’m ready to kill you right now, so don’t f*ck with me!” I could see down the barrel of the 9mm semi-automatic, and knew that it was loaded.

There was an initial sick feeling, combined with a bit of panic. But I quickly accepted my death. At no other time, either before OR after this carjacking, have I ever felt a comparable sense of peace and tranquility. It was incredible.

The guy told me to pull into the carport, and he followed me in. I put my head on the steering wheel, and he pulled the trigger.

I heard the click. He panicked and ran off. As they drove up the hill, I heard the gun go off.

Many people have told me that it was THEIR god who provided me peace. To me, it was merely the acceptance of my impending death that did this. All of my bills, my boss, my worries… it all melted away instantly. That felt great.

They’ve also told me that it was THEIR god who made the gun go off in a delayed fashion. Being a person who makes his own ammunition, and knowing that the gun was stolen from someone who bought it, loaded it, and neglected it, I understand the dynamics and science of ammunition, and what happens when a primer becomes corrupted over time.

Why do I not see this as proof of a god?

Quite simply, because that belief was never instilled in me. I was never indoctrinated. For that reason, I don’t view it as divine intervention. And even if I could not explain parts of it, such as the peaceful sensation, I am more than okay with declaring that I don’t know why that happened. I don’t need to have an answer for everything, or the need to know it all. I am okay with accepting the fact that I do not know everything, and cannot explain everything.

When something inexplicable happens, and especially when that thing stands to directly benefit us, it makes sense that someone who was indoctrinated into a faith and raised in it would come to conclude that the god representing that faith was responsible.

That is understandable. It’s not proof, by any stretch, but it is completely understandable.

[.]

I’ve had horrible things done to me under the pretense of religion too Dang. The people who hurt you are responsible for that regardless of what they believe or don’t believe.

[JadeBlackOlive]

It is what it is, no explaining (divine excuses) needed.

[.]

I look at that situation you illustrated Dang and I do believe God saved your life that night.

Belief is totally subjective.

[Simon Paynton]

I’ve had an experience where it looked exactly as if a God intervened to help me when doing something “Godly”.  It was so wildly unlikely, and so exactly appropriate for what I needed to accomplish this “Godly” thing.  This showed me that an intervention doesn’t have to blow up the laws of physics.  Actually, I predicted it would probably happen – I was confident enough to go for it, and it did happen.

[Simon Paynton]

How often does this happen?

• you need £10 in order to help someone, but don’t have it
• you go for it anyway, thinking that £10 will probably turn up
• within an hour, on the way to doing your thing, you find £10 in a busy shop doorway at 5 pm

[Dang Martin]

That reminds me of a time when I was in this Buddhist organization. I wasn’t there because I believed anything, but because I could make entertainment industry contacts. Lots of big names were doing it.

This one guy, who was my “Lion Hahn” [kind of like a guidance counselor], was telling me about how chanting worked for him and guided his life.

He said that when his Lion Hahn told him that he could chant for anything, that he asked, “Even for weed?”

Yes, my son. Even for weed.

So he was chanting and chanting, and weed was almost magically appearing. Doobies were raining down in his lap at times. He thought, this is SO GREAT! He chanted every day, and got his weed.

Until one day, when he did not.

He chanted harder. Nothing.

He chanted longer. Nothing.

He went back to his Lion Hahn. “Something is wrong here. I’ve been chanting for weed, with a greater intensity than ever before. No matter how hard I try, weed is no longer materializing.”

His Lion Han told him, “If you are chanting for weed, and you are not getting it, then it’s because the Universe feels that it is not in your best interest at this time to have weed.”

As he told me this story, I couldn’t help but think that his experience with weed would have been exactly the same, regardless of whether he was chanting, praying, or doing nothing.

It was like when something happens that is good, then that is god, and when something bad happens, that is satan.

It sounded like confirmation bias to me.

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

I look at that situation you illustrated Dang and I do believe God saved your life that night.

Belief is totally subjective.

@Belle – If you consider your belief to be totally subjective then why do you not consider the evidence that led you to that belief to be totally subjective?

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

@Belle  – Can you point out where what Hitchens said becomes completely inaccurate because he exaggerated? Can you please explain what the “chip on his shoulder is” and why my paraphrasing of him is total BS.

You may have more evidence than you need for your belief. However that is only evidence for your belief in God and not evidence for God.

You say you “know without any doubt that God was behind” you experience of discovering your biological family. How do you know this beyond any doubt? What nailed it for you?

[PopeBeanie]

At times when I wished for then achieved something precious, even when I was sure it had to be a coincidence of good luck, I’d still get the feeling that it happened “for a reason”, or “just for me”. I’ll even look up and thank God, but while being sure that if He really exists, He’ll know I’m just kidding, and (even better) He will not feel offended or diminished, and He’ll enjoy my sense of humor!

Why? Well, that’s when it seems that if there’s a God, He’s good, right? So they say. But since I still have the “feeling” of some kind of connection to something larger or a usable connection to my “future”, I like to go with that feeling and use it as inspiration, regardless of where it’s from. Why not, right? I just don’t assume it comes from the same place that ancient peoples purported and traditionalists purport.

Then there are all those other times when disaster and tragedy strike. The religious fundamentalist still appreciates “God’s work”, and might say that God struck because people deserved it.

Meanwhile, people like to thank God for letting them survive, while others have perished or were seriously damaged.

Humans invent connections even where none exist, and then their belief gets reinforced when it fits the most extant cultural norm. Yikes, I just read a theory on matter yesterday that purports that even fundamental particles like protons and electrons carry a tiny form of consciousness, which en masse can explain human consciousness. But sometimes they’re on to something that explains reality in a credible way… it just needs to become universally measurable and reproducible before it can be acceptable as scientific theory or “fact”.

[Simon Paynton]

@Dan gMartin – “That reminds me of a time when I was in this Buddhist organization.”  “It sounded like confirmation bias to me.”

I think it’s very lazy, and complacent, to assume that every situation is the same.  My situation was nothing like that.  I’ve found £ notes on maybe 4 occasions in my entire life – pretty much like everyone else.  This occasion was completely unique.  Also, I’ve never otherwise been out on a mission to help someone in quite that way – the only other time I was, something a bit similar happened – I got what I needed just by unlikely coincidence.  It is surprising but it doesn’t come up very much.  I just don’t go around doing that precise thing – going out on a limb to help someone without the means or resources to do so.

Another significant observation:  there have been, say, 5 occasions when I was about to “go nuclear” in the past 12 years.  On 4 of those, there was an appointed Time.  On each and every of those 4 occasions, my friend S. phoned me within 5, 4, 3, 2 minutes before the appointed Time, and thereby stopped me from going nuclear (without her knowledge).  In those 12 years, she’s phoned me maybe 3 other times.  On the 5th occasion, I was already talking to her (and she’s not easy to get hold of, so this doesn’t happen very often) when circumstances arose, causing me to want to go nuclear.  But since I was already having a nice chat with her, I let it go.  There have been no other occasions in 12 years when my finger was hovering over the red button, “period”.  On 100% of the occasions when it was, S. stopped me (without knowing).

This is just not a coincidence.  If the full data could be presented and statistically analysed, it would have some number attached to it like 0.95 signifying near-totality of non-chance.

So, wrap your rational head around that.

[Simon Paynton]

@popebeanie – “At times when I wished for then achieved something precious”

– this wasn’t that – we all do that.  Sometimes it comes off, sometimes it doesn’t, that’s life.  What I’m talking about is a very specific and unique set of circumstances.

[PopeBeanie]

@SimonPaynton yeah, I can’t explain that. 🙂 I can only imagine the large variety of explanations for it that people around the world would volunteer!

[Dang Martin]

Simon Paynton wrote: I think it’s very lazy, and complacent, to assume that every situation is the same.

Yes, I agree, which is why I did not make that assumption. It just reminded me of something else.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 8 months ago by Dang Martin.

[_Robert_]

I look at that situation you illustrated Dang and I do believe God saved your life that night. Belief is totally subjective.

And when the gun does go off and blood and brains stain the leatherette and splatter the windshield; god who could have done something decided, “fuck you asshole”. Amen.

 

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