August 26, 2020 at 7:19 pm #33022
Are you saying that the pressure for a seed to grow to adulthood is not real? The metaphor is saying that God makes this happen. Inside the religious frame of reference, this is a truism.
Are you saying that the pressure to thrive, survive and reproduce is not real? The first is a subset of the second.
What is the currency of love? Measles virus? Carrots? Harry Potter books? At its basis, it is thriving, giving the gift thereof.
In the Bible, it says that God is love. So, the Biblical concept of God’s love (one aspect) is the biological pressure to thrive, survive and reproduce. The metaphor given, is closely related to this.August 26, 2020 at 7:56 pm #33023
Conditions permitting, a seed grows to a bean stock and Jack climbs that bean stock. Pressure? It is the nature of life to grow, replicate, reproduce. Not sure pressure is the correct way to frame it. God makes little green apples. Poems are written by fools like you and me but only god can make a tree. What difference does it make what religious framework suggests? Any system of thought or better yet ideology based on superstition that requires its adherents to have faith which is to say relax their native skepticism and accept the dogma of authority aint worth stained toilet paper.
Pressure to thrive is i think a construct. Survive and reproduce? No argument.
The currency of love? Indications of love are subordination of selfish intentions for benefit of other, compassion for other, empathy for another…i suppose furthering the well being of the other is another indication.
If A says to B, i love you. I love you more than words can express but later says to sacrifice your son. Go ahead. Dispatch the little fucker. I am busy and i command you to get on with it. Is that love? And again the idea of metaphor is ridiculous. You see a metaphor in a passage clearly as you see the pressure to thrive. Another reader sees nothing. Still another has a different interpretation. And this is the handbook from God? She could not manage to do better? In American law a statute must communicate its strictures with sufficient clarity to be enforceable. But you want a lesser standard for creator of the cosmos?August 26, 2020 at 9:08 pm #33027
Pressure to thrive is i think a construct.
Do you want to thrive? Who doesn’t? It’s a goal towards which we feel pressure.
Being high on weed is thriving.August 26, 2020 at 9:44 pm #33028
Think about Freud’s Pleasure Principle. He states that for some reason, everyone wants to do what gives them pleasure, above all else. We get pleasure when we move towards our goals. One of our primary goals is thriving, almost by definition, since thriving means to move towards any of our goals. Therefore, we feel pleasure when we thrive. Freud says there is a pressure to seek pleasure. Why would he say that? Is there a pressure to thrive?August 26, 2020 at 9:50 pm #33029
Lets see? Masochists, flagellants, nuns, various monks…
Now if you point out that one woman’s revulsion is another man’s thriving then what differentiates one life from another in terms of doing well?
Why do whales beach themselves?
If i seem to be pushing against thriving it is not really the case. I don’t have a strong opinion.August 26, 2020 at 10:03 pm #33030
You get your human beings. They are born of human beings. They have human parents. And then you get Godly Beings born of Godly Parents. These are two different “species”. To become a Child of God such a person needs to be born again of Godly Parents. And then such a person is a God too. And it enters another Life. That of God Himself. The Babies fighting in their various groups and organizations are basically the Babies of God not understanding much. They should have grown up in their Godly Lives but were taken captive by other Babies for their honor and wealth. Just Babies on display. Don’t let them confuse you about God and His Children.
I’m seeing a dogma standing in need of proof.
No problem. Here it is. 1 Cor. 3 1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal,even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
You can prove stuff around here with biblical references, Johan. Save that stuff for your believer buddies.August 26, 2020 at 10:04 pm #33031
To the degree that those people are moving towards their goals, they are thriving.
No-one knows why whales beach themselves, so I can’t comment on that. I would have thought it’s a mistake of some kind.
Suicide and depression happen because the pressure to thrive cannot be satisfied to enough of a degree.August 26, 2020 at 11:30 pm #33032
The pressure to thrive is internal, like some kind of biological engine that aims to keep the organism at optimum fitness – rather than external, like God.August 27, 2020 at 12:29 am #33033
Simon, i don’t think your thrive jive is completely off-base but it strikes me as somewhat idiosyncratic.August 27, 2020 at 8:19 am #33034
It’s a new theory (hypothesis, model) apparently. It explains a lot. The “pressure” supplies the ethical ought-ness of morality.August 27, 2020 at 12:03 pm #33035
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
That right there sounds like the biological pressure to thrive.
Yep. But this is Spiritual “thriving”. Where concepts of the earth that we understand are used to explain spiritual realities. As Godly Beings we “plant and watered” and God give the Growth.
We are born again as Babies of God and we need to grow up too.August 27, 2020 at 12:10 pm #33036
Johan, quoting the bible doesn’t prove anything…any more than quoting the little mermaid. The particular book was written by a guy travelling around the Mediterranean writing letters trying to convert people to a religion that had just been invented. Nothing in the book is corroborated by any other independent evidence. The only thing that gives it authority is a council of believers who got together and decided that they would include it in a canon of literature they considered holy. We are not interested in dogmatic truth just as you wouldn’t consider some random quote from the Quran or the Baghavad Gita as evidence for anything unless it was independently corroborated with other evidence or it by coincidence happened to match something you already believed.
Yep. That is true. To you. To me it is a different story. Because I met with the Power of the Word of God that has the Ability to Create when you Believe it. I use capitals because it is Godly stuff. As opposed to human stuff.
So i didn’t use the Scriptures to prove to you anything. Just giving you the source of my believe. And the source of my Creation. That was from that point. If you do not know that I have been created by that Word then you will never understand me.August 27, 2020 at 12:16 pm #33037
I have fed you with blood, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
Now why do you insert “Dracula” into this topic?
My friend.—Welcome to the Carpathians. I am anxiously expecting you. Sleep well tonight. At three tomorrow the diligence will start for Bukovina; a place on it is kept for you. At the Borgo Pass my carriage will await you and will bring you to me. I trust that your journey from London has been a happy one, and that you will enjoy your stay in my beautiful land.—Your friend, Dracula.’
Dracula, Chapter 1 page 6. We know it is real because it is signed by Him and he has no stake in the matter.August 27, 2020 at 12:19 pm #33038
quoting the bible doesn’t prove anything…any more than quoting the little mermaid.
It’s true metaphorically. They could have stated it in its factual form, but when it was written, there was no theory of evolution. Also, nobody would understand “biological pressure to thrive”, apparently.
This of course is not theory but God’s Word. He creates by His Word.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.August 27, 2020 at 12:36 pm #33039
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
biological pressure to thrive
OK, so they’re not exactly the same thing, but they are closely related. The first is about the biological pressure for a seed to grow to adulthood. The second is the biological pressure to thrive, survive and reproduce. What is the currency of love? Straightforward benefit or harm, or thriving/withering. What does the Bible say? God is love.
I agree with @davis that a book cannot validate itself. It has to be validated with outside sources – just like the Buddhist texts.
I am asserting that some parts of the Bible are metaphorical, and out of those, some parts are metaphorically true. Other parts are supposed to be a true record of events. Some of these ring true in my opinion.
The seed is of course Jesus Christ. And when the seed is planted in the Soul of the human the Life of Jesus spring up in that Person that is now a Godly Life and make such a Person a Godly Being.
This makes the Seed of God that is Jesus the origen of the Tree that is the manifestation of the Seed. This is done by God to give growth. The seed planted and watered is done by human beings.
But what is important now is the Tree. Or Jesus Christ. The Godly Being Existing. The Children of God planted and watered Existing as Jesus. In different Growth of course. Some small Trees and some Big Trees.
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