Sunni Islam and Shia Islam Together Again…And Against Us!

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Fellow Unbelievers,

I’ve told Trumpistas that Trump’s Abraham Accords was a bunch of hudna* and hooey! But they didn’t listen!

Trump thinks anything can be a Goddamn “deal” and anyone can be trusted to make a “deal.”

Well, this “deal” backfired bigly yuge against the U.S., Israel, and ultimately, the West and every poor person on the Planet!

Israel war: Leaders of Iran and Saudi Arabia hold first-ever phone call, pledging united support for Palestinians
Story by Brady Knox •3h
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-war-leaders-of-iran-and-saudi-arabia-hold-first-ever-phone-call-pledging-united-support-for-palestinians/ar-AA1i4h82

Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims are setting aside their ancient quarrel over who will run the Caliphate conn (or con) after Muhammad died and they’re uniting against “The Zionist Entity” Israel and supporting Hamas murderers!

This not only has implications for Israel, but will have immediate implications for petroleum prices and prices for everything that depends on petroleum, which are already high enough from Putin’s war with Ukraine and Biden neutering the U.S. of our own petroleum, on top of prices higher from Trump’s and Biden’s runaway spending funded by inflationary monetary policy.

And, of course, as Rabbi Jonathan Sacks rightly observed, the hatred against Jews is never confined to just Jews. The Hamas attack on Israel and the unity of Sunni Saudi Arabia and Shia Iran will embolden and replenish the resources of Islamist terrorists everywhere!

Stay safe and prepared, Fellow Unbelievers!

*Hudna is a temporary truce that Jihadis make with the Kuffir (Unbeliever) while the Jihadis regroup, gather up their forces and resources, re-strategize, then fight the Kuffir again another day. Devious!

[PopeBeanieModerator]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims are setting aside their ancient quarrel over who will run the Caliphate conn (or con) after Muhammad died and they’re uniting against “The Zionist Entity” Israel and supporting Hamas murderers!

So don’t be surprised if/when Israel kills ten times as many human beings as Hamas has. The motives are existential on both sides. It’s also Islam vs Judaism, and theocratic rule, not as much wrt Israel but increasingly so.

Blame Biden for whatever, but would Trump be preferable? Our politics right now are contributing to a possibly perfect storm around the world. American military force is already heading to that area. How about Trump supporting the relocation of Israel’s capital, ramping up hostile precursors to confrontation?

Seriously, is it at all possible for us to remain objective? Take a 50 mile high view from outer space, like an alien AI? What happens if/when Putin wins Ukraine, with his interests in the Middle East? And how long before any Sunni vs Shia alliance breaks back down to identity theology?

Enco, I’m not saying you’re wrong on anything. I’m just not seeing any possible solutions that can come about, in light of the emotional divisions in humanity in significant areas and governments of the world.

[UnseenParticipant]

We made a Jewish state out of whole cloth once. We need to do it again. White Christians creating a Jewish state for mostly white European Jews, on land belonging to nonwhite Muslims. What could go wrong.

We need to create a New Israel in a white Christian country as we should have done in the first place. Somewhere in the U.S. or Canada? The Jews won’t be happy but appeasing them is what fucked up the Middle East in the first place.

[jakelafortParticipant]

I love this perspective that perpetuates the age-old scapegoating of Jews. It is rich how nothing ever changes, how historical patterns are recirculated like tides lapping the shore.

The need for a Jewish state was known to Jewish thinkers in the 19th century. Of course zionism has become a DIRTY word just like JEW is a dirty word. It was obvious to the zionists in the 19th century that there was no safety for Jews without a Jewish state. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Judaism. In fact the orthodox typically oppose the state of Israel because it was not generated through some religious manifestation that they wanted. Those prescient writers no doubt would have known how Europeans would react to the opportunity to exterminate Jews. So in the aftermath of the holocaust can you imagine being a Jew? Where in the fuck do you go? Even Canada and USA turned back holocaust survivors who had docked there. Zionism is a moral imperative. Jews goddamn fucking sure need a home where they cannot be fucked over by the natives. The justification for Israel if so much greater than the endless unprovoked European and American manifestfuckyou destiny cuz we are stronger we will take your land, fuck your women, and enslave/exile you. Aint much said about that though. But Jews who had endured the millenia of persecution and the immediate aftermath of the holocaust? Yeah zionism is a bad thing. Ask those far lefties including Jewish lefties. They will tell ya.

History of western civ. as it relates to Jews is a diaspora out of the ancient home whence Jews have returned and unrelenting persecution. I aint making this shit up. Read Jewish history. Slaughtered. Exiled. Pogroms. Inquisitions. Almost all of Western and Eastern Europe had citizens frothing at the mouth to turn their Jewish citizens over to the Nazis. Denmark and Albania are the exceptions. Had the Nazis prevailed Jews would be done.

Palestinians never had a state. Jews and Palestinians have lived there through the centuries. After the Turks got out and it became a British mandate both Arabs and Jews were jonesing for the Brits to get out so they could have their own state. A seemingly logical solution, two states, was approved by the UN in 47. Jews celebrated like drunken sailors. Arabs wanted it all. Attacked immediately by a coalition of Arabs under a British leader. Damn near defeated the Jews and would have had a great chance to do what they wanted which is kill all of the Jews. That is what many Palestinians still want. That is the goal of Hamas.

Where the hell are the surrounding Arab Muslim states in helping their brethren? No doubt had the circumstances been opposite and Jews in surrounding states instead of Arabs that Jews in Gaza that they would be adopted by the Jewish states. The reality is the surrounding states do not care about Palestinians. They use it as a pretext for Jew hating. Human shields for the terrorist groups and when Israel goes wild in retaliating they will have more propaganda. No doubt Israel has committed some human rights violations. But the microscope goes to Israel where the telescope is used on other places. Do you think Arabs or Palestinians would call before they were going to bomb a building and wait to explode it so the people could get out? How have the Russians behaved towards civilians?

So what is the solution? There isn’t one. Arabs are taught to hate Jews. Wipe out Hamas and it only creates a niche for the next terrorists. Were there a true pan-Arab sentiment and a few other states like Iran came to terms with the existence of Israel the way say Egypt has then it could be peaceful i suppose. Maybe a change in gov there would help. I am probably rambling. Back to the races for me…

[UnseenParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

Palestinians never had a state.

What’s so special about a “state”? The Palestinians lived on the land, making it their own the old fashioned way. You know, like the Native Americans who, I guess, lost their land for the lack of having a “state.” (Though, I don’t think that would have stopped the European onslaught.)

Let’s drop the “there was no Palestinian state” excuse for taking their land.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Let’s drop the “there was no Palestinian state” excuse for taking their land.

The idea that Jews have taken the Palestinian state is a lie. That is the significance of the never had a state assertion. The Palestinians fucked themselves. THEY HAD A STATE GIVEN TO THEM. Just like Israel. Problem is they wanted it all. They wanted all Jews driven into the sea. THEY LOST. There are consequences to a war of aggression that is waged and lost. There are consequences to electing terrorists to run your government.

But i agree it is not particularly significant beyond the aforementioned.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Fell9w aUnbelievers,

When I posted this, I was operating under the assumption that Saudi Arabia was a signatory of the Abraham Accords, an honest mistake, since I heard that the Accords were between Israel and the Gulf States. This is a mistake on my part.

Nevertheless, although Saudi Arabia was not a signatory, Trump did intend to expand the Accords to other Islamic nations and Trump is rather pal-sy with the Saudis. This is part of a long line of U.S. Administrations appeasing Islamofascists. Well, the fruition is here with both the Hamas and Hezbollah attacks on Israel encouraged by appeasing Iran and the unity of former Sunni and Shia rivals brought by appeasing Saudi Arabia.

Notice in The story that Salman never condemned the attacks on Israeli civilians specifically, but only referred to civilians in general.

[UnseenParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

The idea that Jews have taken the Palestinian state is a lie. That is the significance of the never had a state assertion. The Palestinians fucked themselves. THEY HAD A STATE GIVEN TO THEM. Just like Israel. Problem is they wanted it all.

“Sorry, you have to go to the new Palestinian country. This farm/shop/home you’ve had as long as you can remember now belongs to a Jewish person.”

The gifter (the UN) had no ownership of the gift they gave. If they did, please explain how the gift came into their possession.

Your obsession with supporting Israel looks to me like a typical idee fixe.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Unseen dangles the cheese.

Cheese blows in the breeze.

Cheese aint worth a sneeze.

Really truly poor Unseen. You can do better.

For Enco…laptop potpal slap dash shad pals strap on no parts…

[UnseenParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

Unseen dangles the cheese. Cheese blows in the breeze. Cheese aint worth a sneeze. Really truly poor Unseen. You can do better. For Enco…laptop potpal slap dash shad pals strap on no parts…

There once was a fellow named Jake,
Whose idee fixe kept him awake.
He dreamed night and day,
In an obsessive display,
Of a belief he just couldn’t forsake.

Answer my question: Did the UN own the land they used to create Israel? If not, how could they give it?

• This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  Unseen.

[jakelafortParticipant]

There was a man named Unseen
Who would not not say what he means
Took no position with his dentition
Controversy his only ambition
dangled the cheese
not worth a sneeze
oh puhleeeeeze

[UnseenParticipant]

@ Jake

Come on. Answer my question: Did the UN own the land they used to create Israel? If not, how could they give it?

When did the occupants give their consent?

[jakelafortParticipant]

Honestly Unseen,

I just don’t want to play. I was in a long vituperative debate on atheist nexus with a few outstandingly outstanding Jew-haters. Not talking minor league bigots. It is draining. It serves no purpose. Jews are under a microscope. Two standards. One for rest of the population, other for Jews. BTW cuttlefish are supposed to be the shining stars of cephalopods.

[—Participant]

Unseen wrote:

@ Jake Come on. Answer my question: Did the UN own the land they used to create Israel?

Sort of. It was Under Ottoman control up until WWI when the British and Ottoman empires ended up on opposite sides. This was an era were national borders shifted around extant populations all the time. Even within European borders, peoples would become incorporated into various territories due to war, political wheelings and dealings, uprisings, and various other reasons. Sometimes the existing people remained in place. Sometimes immigration and emigration shifted the demographics. Sometimes they were forcibly expelled.

I say this not with an air of moral relativism, but with recognition that colonialism and redrawing maps was the way they operated at the time. As for why Zionism became of interest to Britain, I am not exactly sure. I believe some of it had to do with beliefs that Jewish people had lots of money and were predominately Zionists so supporting Zionism was a means of securing war funds. By the time WWI ended, Britain was positioned to make it happen and the League of Nations was on board with the plan.

If not, how could they give it? When did the occupants give their consent?

We’d have to undo so many current nations or radically redraw their borders if we used that principle. Which is no sweat off my back despite the fact that I might no longer be living in Canada, per se.

While none of this makes the colonialism and status quo of current day Israel/ Palestine okay, from the perspective of Britain and the League of Nations in the early 20th century, I am not sure the plan seemed that exceptional to the way its members had been redrawing lines all along.

[UnseenParticipant]

@ Jake and Autumn

Taking people’s land and drawing political boundaries without consulting the locals is SOP, to be sure. It’s the prerogative of the powerful. I just find it rich that all of that is forgotten, along with the many insults and crimes of the Israeli government inflicted on the Palestinians. Can it be any wonder that some among them would take action to get rid of them?

I’ve also pointed out elsewhere that when war crimes is all you’ve got to win with and your cause is just, you resort to war crimes.

Everyone rushes to support the apartheid regime that is publicly stating that “there are no innocent Palestinians” (translation: “The only good Palestinian is a dead one.”)

[Author]

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