Sunni Islam and Shia Islam Together Again…And Against Us!
This topic contains 442 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Unseen 1 year, 2 months ago.
-
AuthorPosts
-
October 15, 2023 at 5:23 am #50683
Seriously? That was over seven decades ago. Anyone who was so much as sixteen at the time would now be in their 90s. Not to mention the fact that British occupation was basically giving away territory in their homelands. I am aware that’s an oversimplification, by why would anyone handle that well? While the events of the past certainly have an impact on attitudes of today in some way, shape, or form, it’s a bit silly to shape views of contemporary Palestinians based on their forebears.
October 15, 2023 at 5:43 am #50684DEAD NUTS SERIOUS!
NOTHING has changed. Fanatical religious people. Just like they were then. How are contemporary Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank evolved? I suppose there are a minority who have gone overseas and gotten good educations. That is the exception.
There was an immediate attack. Five Arab nations attacked. It was not just the Palestinians. It is the Arabs in the middle east. They wanted/want it all. Jews accepted a compromise. The mindset is the same as it ever was. You examine the history of Israel and of Arab terrorists and Arab nations and you see unilateral unprovoked attacks in both wars and terrorism. Nothing changes. The leader of the PLO said his goal was to drive the Jews into the sea. All of the various terrorist groups have and continue to want to liquidate the Jews and suck face with Jerusalem. The Palestinians i read support Hamas overwhelmingly. We know what Hamas is. Have you read the textbooks of middle eastern Arabs as it relates to Jews? If you have not it is a bit shocking. Hatred is instilled same as it was then.
And now as then the enmity between the various Arab states and religion may be overcome by their desire to kill Jews and take their land. It is the same shit. The nexus is rock solid. Stun backwards is nuts. Who was the American military commander who refused to give up in the Ardennes in WW2 and replied nuts to the German commander’s invitation to surrender. Jesus i need sleep! Did you see Unseen’s video? It is same shit. Different century. Frozen in time. Frozen in hatred. Jealous. And much closer to a monolith than Israelis who have various opinions as to Palestinians’ plight.
Giving away territory in their homeland? Also giving away territory in the Jewish homeland. Not only the ancient states of Israel and Judea but Jews maintained a presence throughout the centuries. The diaspora was not 100 percent. And the urgency for a homeland in the wake of rising fascism culminating in the holocaust meant that part of the territory was just fine back in the day.
October 15, 2023 at 5:48 am #50685NOTHING has changed. Fanatical religious people. Just like they were then.
Seems you made up your mind three quarters of a century ago.
October 15, 2023 at 5:50 am #50686I copy pasted a bit to give you an indication of what Israelis are up against and it helps explain how citizens in these nations are out for blood.
No wonder many Arabs felt betrayed. Loathing for Israel and Jews is ingrained in a region where the official cultures demonize not only specific actions and policies of the state of Israel, but even its very existence. Several Arab governments provide their people cradle-to-grave indoctrination in raw anti-Semitism. Their education systems, government media, and state-financed clergy bombard citizens with the view that Jews must be hated and feared for theological, political, and social reasons.
Saudi Arabia’s public schools, for example, instruct that Jews “obey the devil” and are those whom “God has cursed and with whom He is so angry that He will never again be satisfied.” The Saudi edition of the Koran injects the phrase “such as the Jews” into the opening chapter, following the clause “those who have incurred your [God’s] wrath.”
Of all the anti-Jewish influences in the region, one of the most prevalent and potent is The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Disseminated with the support and official sanction of the governments of Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Libya, Palestine, and Syria, as well as Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states, this work is used to shape the collective consciousness of Arab populations. The Protocols is a century-old fabrication that purports to record the ma chinations of Jews conspiring to rule the world through treach ery, fraud, and violence. Its prose is childish and rambling, as in this excerpt, taken from the eleventh of the 24 protocols: The goyim [non-Jews] are a flock of sheep, and we are their wolves.BTW…Imagine centuries of persecution and finally a homeland and being surrounded by people who want you dead? Jews continue to be the world’s scapegoats. Anything bad happens anywhere dead nuts certainty you will observe how Jews are blamed. It is a fucked up world and it aint getting any less fucky
October 15, 2023 at 5:51 am #50687No Autumn, I made up my mind over the course of a lifetime.
I have read my share of history. I’ve observed. I have reasoned. I have seen the patently obvious double standards.
October 15, 2023 at 5:55 am #50688Jake,
For Encoโฆlaptop potpal slap dash shad pals strap on no partsโฆ
Again, great anagram margana marginalia! ๐
But a laptop’s not a potpal for a hot stove pot. A laptop as a pot-holder would be a melty mess.
But a laptop could be a potpal if you hide your joint in the CD-ROM drive.๐ฟ๐ป๐
Shad pals can be slap dash if they improvise their fishing technique.๐ฃ๐
As for a strap-on being no parts, the receiver might beg to differ while begging for more. ๐๐๐
On a more wholesome note, I’ll leave you with this nugget I read years ago from Reader’s Digest:
“Dyslexics of the World, Untie!” ๐๐
October 15, 2023 at 6:00 am #50689Enco, But a laptop could be a potpal if you hide your joint in the CD-ROM drive.๐ฟ๐ป๐
Shad pals can be slap dash if they improvise their fishing technique.๐ฃ๐
As for a strap-on being no parts, the receiver might beg to differ while begging for more. ๐๐๐
Props. Good work. You get an A.
I don’t have dyslexia. I just talk backwards effortlessly. Well that is not entirely true. Long sentences i have to think before i can repeat them backwards.
October 15, 2023 at 6:50 am #50690I have read my share of history. Iโve observed. I have reasoned.
If you jumped to 1947 to make a point about present-day viewpoints, I’m going to have to say at least two of those statements are not in evidence.
October 15, 2023 at 7:05 am #50691Autumn wrote:
If you jumped to 1947 to make a point about present-day viewpoints, Iโm going to have to say at least two of those statements are not in evidence.
You have said nothing substantive. Make an argument.
You brought up the two state solution. I said they had it and rejected it. Furthermore nothing has changed with Palestinians or Arabs in surrounding states in terms of attitude. See Unseen’s video. It is uncanny the reaction of Arab citizens and how much more out for blood they are than their governments. Back then it was same damn thing. Arabs got together to kill Jews. Their hatred and disdain for each other was not as great as their hatred and resentment of Jews. It substantiates the degree of indoctrination of Arab citizens to the most vile anti-Jewish propaganda. And you watch as this goes on how Jews will be attacked in other nations. Anti Jewish sentiment is omnipresent. Even in putative tolerant places it is just beneath the surface.
October 15, 2023 at 7:09 am #50692When i was practicing law i was consulted by some for no other reason than my last name. And often they revealed themselves as anti-Jewish. Hated but thought to have control, be in power and or be more intelligent and therefore useful. I have read how Arab royalty that of course hates Jews sometimes seeks out Jewish doctors in Israel.
It is a fucked up world and it aint getting any less fucky.
October 15, 2023 at 8:04 am #50693You have said nothing substantive. Make an argument.
Bullshit. Whether I said anything substantive or not has nothing to do with your non-sequitur. Don’t make excuses. It’s beneath you.
You don’t even seem to know what it is you’re arguing against. Contemporary proposals for a two-state solution necessarily recognize the existence of Israel as a state side-by-side with a Palestinian state. Note that nothing I am stating has anything to do with the viability of a two-state solution. The point is merely that there has been significant support amongst Palestinians for a two-party solution in recent history. That means a sizeable portion of the population recognizes or is willing to recognize the validity and continued existence of Israel as a state.
Polling data in this century has given numbers ranging from around one third to two thirds support amongst Palestinians. Obviously that’s not a fixed number given the volatility of the area. While ideas of what that state should look like almost certainly vary, the optimistic case seems to be 1967 borders.
There are obvious caveats here. Support for a two-state solution doesn’t necessarily mean philosophical acceptance nor approval of Israel neither does opposition to it mean the opposite. It’s also understood that accurate polling data on this particular topic is very difficult to get. But it is a strong indication that a sizeable portion of Palestinians have come to terms with the existence of Israel adjacent to them. 1947 has fuck all to do with this. To say that not everyone supports Hamas’s degree of extremism means we’re talking about more than three guys, five gals, two children, and one goat. It’s not even clear over the last decade or two where Hamas has always stood on its original charter, but for the purposes of this conversation, fuck Hamas, and the PLO for that matter. I’m talking about ordinary people. People in who want to live their lives with some meagre hope of prosperity without necessarily having to cede their home or become refugees. They are not immovable on the subject of peace.
And one more time with emphasis, this has nothing to do with whether a two-state solution would secure peace or if it even remains possible. It’s about Palestinians being far more complex than a fixation on Jews and their eradication.
October 15, 2023 at 4:24 pm #50699Jake,
donโt have dyslexia. I just talk backwards effortlessly. Well that is not entirely true. Long sentences i have to think before i can repeat them backwards.
I’m not dyslexic and probably shouldn’t have posted the Reader’s Digest quote, but it was witty and I am good at reading backwards and upside down. Dyslexia could also carry with it some useful mental talents.
If nothing else, unique ways of reading are a great coping mechanism for dealing with a world that has recently revealed itself to be epistemically demented and morally inverted.
You and I disagree on more than we agree on and I admittedly can be a cussed, quarrelly bastard, but on the issue of Israel and it’s right to exist, we are in full accord.
To support what you are saying earlier, there is documentary called It Ain’t Necessarily So by John McCarthy. In it, he points out that there is no archeological or anthropological evidence that the Hebrews later known as Israelites were ever held captive in Egypt, and that the Israelites were actually Canaanites who came to what is now called Israel from another part of Canaan.
The implications are obvious. If the Hebrews were never held captive in Egypt, this means they never left the area. Hence, their historical claims are as valid as anyone else’s,
Also, as you mentioned above and I just now caught, the Diaspora that took place after the Romans destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem was not a complete scattering of the Jewish people. Jews retained at least a small presence in the “Holy Land”, so if that is part of the criteria of who owns real estate, then they qualify as much as Arabs any anyone else who has inhabited the area.
Moreover, members of the Zionist Movement throughout the early 20th Century bought land from willing Arab sellers. This fact is evidenced both by title transfers and by laws still on the books forbidding sale of land to Jews in Jordan, Syria, and elsewhere among Israel’s enemies.
And while there were actions on both sides that created the Palestinian refugee problem, those actions were condemned by prominent Zionists and the main culprits keeping Palestinians living in squalor and oppression are their so-called Arab and Muslim “brothers.”
“War is over, if you want it,” like John Lennon sang, but people like Hamas and their morally-inverted supporters simply don’t want it.
-
This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by
TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling
-
This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by
TheEncogitationer. Reason: Addendum, corrected after I read the posts above
October 15, 2023 at 4:59 pm #50703Fellow Unbelievers,
If anything good is to come out of this, I hope it means that people stop using oppression and social justice narratives as a justification for commiting oppression, injustice, and atrocities themselves and stop listening to those that do!
If Stop Oil Now’s cause requires ruining a relaxing trip to an art museum and getting in my way trying to get to and from work or recreation, I don’t want to hear it and get out of the damn street before you get speed-bumped!
If learning history means little kids are taught that the weight of inhumanity rest on the shoulders of people living today and there is no way to move on, and that children are either privileged oppressors and genocidalists or perpetual oppressed victims who will never succeed in life, then I don’t want to hear it and parents are right to seek better education elsewhere!
If “criminal justice reform” means cities littered with trash, liquor bottles, drug needles, and human waste and stores picked clean and closed or burned down by looters and retail customers having to wait on unlocked cases and retail workers going years at a time without bonuses, and violent sociopaths having run of the streets, I don’t want to hear about it and keep two arm’s length from me!
And if the brunt of your anger in your oppression narrative includes kidnapping, raping, and anything unspeakable done to actual, viable, living, innocent babies, I simply don’t want to hear it or have anything to do with you! Hamas, try that on 119 million armed U.S. Citizens!
October 15, 2023 at 5:30 pm #50706From a Muslim perspective, the creation of the State of Israel.
October 15, 2023 at 6:28 pm #50710Autumn wrote:
Bullshit. Whether I said anything substantive or not has nothing to do with your non-sequitur. Donโt make excuses. Itโs beneath you.
There was no nonsequitur. So it is not beneath me. Palestinians according to Pew are overwhelmingly religious. Yes a smattering of Christians but mostly Muslims. The Palestinians according to Pew in that world research that attempted to account for antisemitism (how about AJ for antijewish) discovered (no surprise) that the greater middle east and Palestinian territory is rabidly antisemitic. Subsequent developments have supported my contention that nothing has changed. Polls shmolls! Look at the leadership. Look at the culture. I am going to draw an analogy in fantasy land. If a mad scientist built a time machine to go back in time to observe and interview Christians who lived during the Crusades and then again 75 years later to ascertain whether attitudes had changed towards the Muslim infidels what do you suppose would be learned? Frozen in time? Changed? I think we both know.
As to some polls and shifting numbers of Palestinians who would support a two state solution-meaningless in the face of the nascent and continuing indoctrination and inculcation of hatred against Jews. Nor would a two state solution suggest peace and yes i read your caveat and admonition. I know you are not suggesting it would. I dont think your conclusion about shifting numbers of Palestinians being amenable to a two state solution means that they would recognize Israel. Even if it did mean that it is a recognition as thin as a diaphanous dress and revocable with the shifting breeze.
I already linked you the shocking pervasive policy on indoctrinating citizens in Arab countries and here is something specific about Palestinians: Palestinian Authority schoolbooks feature three fundamentals:
Delegitimization of Israelโs existence and the Jewsโ very presence in the country, which includes denial of their history and the existence of any Jewish holy places there.
Demonization of both Israel and Jews, with implications regarding the Jewsโ image in the eyes of children who hail from a traditional society.
Incitement and the absence of a call for peace with Israel. Instead, there is a call for a violent struggle for the liberation of the whole country.Attitudes are the same as they ever were. I am not asserting every single Palestinian is the same. That would be juvenile. Just like not every German in Nazi Germany was in favor of the Nazis and their objective of world domination and eradication of Jews. But bottom line aint nothing changed. HATE HATE HATE HATE KILL And for people who are surrounded by that sentiment and Arabs who sometimes act on it reciprocity in sentiments is inevitable.
-
This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by
-
AuthorPosts
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.