Sunday School

Sunday School 17th October 2021

This topic contains 71 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  jakelafort 9 months ago.

Viewing 12 posts - 61 through 72 (of 72 total)
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  • #39789

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Robert, So I’m picking up where Ayn Rand failed and left off. I don’t smoke and don’t eat the Soylent Green Gummint Cheese. I will also contribute my Batchelor’s mite and work towards Ray Kurzweil’s Singularit…because where that’s going, we won’t need Social Security and Medicare/MedicId.

    As you can see most here are not opposed the capitalism per se, but we do not have anything like the fair capitalism espoused in Smith’s  “The Wealth of Nations” so long ago. No, it a contorted unfair system with a huge skew towards the wealthy propped up by too-big-to-fail bail-outs etc. So on this I think we actually agree?

    I think social democracy and fair capitalism are not mutually exclusive. We can improve the fairness without crunching profits for innovative persons looking to break in markets or create new ones.

    And being a one-man-island sounds like some kind of freedom until your real world probabilities broaden out at the tail. One only needs look at insurance actuary tables. They should be the guidance for how society can help the individual.

    #39790

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Here is where i learned about it Enco.

    Unless this author was totally full of shit it is amazing the gist of the book is not widely known. Perhaps it will make its way into critical race theory classes.

    So your concept of free market capitalism is utterly chimerical. Give any asshole (majority of humans) too much power and they will be corrupt/exploit/oppress for their benefit and to the detriment of whomever and whatever.

    #39791

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Enco, your favorite has to be the Washington Post. Here is your buddy Flagler and capitalism without the shackles of government regulation.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2018/05/17/how-slave-labor-built-the-state-of-florida-decades-after-the-civil-war/

    #39792

    Unseen
    Participant

    It was absurd to spend blood and treasure there while allowing a Communist nation within 90 miles of our shores in Cuba.

    Like we even have a right to decide what government the Cubans can have.

    #39793

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Agreed Unseen.

    Additionally we had Kennedy interpreting it as an immediate existential threat when the reality is-What is the difference between launching nukes from Russia, off a sub or from Cuba? Either way or any way and it is lights out.

    #39794

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Agreed Unseen. Additionally we had Kennedy interpreting it as an immediate existential threat when the reality is-What is the difference between launching nukes from Russia, off a sub or from Cuba? Either way or any way and it is lights out.

    Warning time..you know, so the important ones can make to their fallout shelters before getting vaporized.

    #39795

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Robert that was good.

    #39802

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Unseen,

    Actually, under The Monroe Docrtine, yes, we can keep any hostile foreign power out of the Hemisphere. And again, it would be all the more pressing with a nuclear-armed Cuba than with Southeast Asia.

    #39803

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Jake,

    You still didn’t provide those links prior to now, as you said you did, so your linking might as well have never happened.

    And the 13th Amendment against slavery and all of the enabling legislation still exists to this day. All that was ever needed was the will to enforce them, and clearly, a whole lot of Progressives revered in history as gods incarnate never had that will.

    And I’ve never held anyone against their will, nor has any person within my circle, so take this pontificating where it belongs, to the Embassies of Sudan, Mauritania, Mail, Saudi Arabia, The Gulf States, North Korea, Red China, and all the other slave-dens still in existence worldwide.

    #39807

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Enco,

    Libertarian contrarian indites: You still didn’t provide those links prior to now, as you said you did, so your linking might as well have never happened.

    Links? As i recall you wanted proof of my assertion that big business after emancipation was enslaving blacks It was Standard Oil i mentioned. I linked the book. Don’t remember what pages and i gave my book to a friend. So if you want verification beyond my say so you will have to get the book. Not sure what else i was going to link. In addition you may have noticed i linked an article about the Floridian scum business magnate, Flagler. There you can see other methods of free market entrepreneurs employing de facto slavery.

    Enco’s palabras: And the 13th Amendment against slavery and all of the enabling legislation still exists to this day. All that was ever needed was the will to enforce them, and clearly, a whole lot of Progressives revered in history as gods incarnate never had that will.

    Enco that is a bad take. History demonstrates what big business does when it is unchecked and unchallenged. The worst of the contemporary mores are manifest. And as you indicate even the putative enlightened persons were largely shite. But you want no oversight, no regulations…just let businesses do their thang and allow the markets to be driven by supply and demand.

    Encospeak: And I’ve never held anyone against their will, nor has any person within my circle, so take this pontificating where it belongs, to the Embassies of Sudan, Mauritania, Mail, Saudi Arabia, The Gulf States, North Korea, Red China, and all the other slave-dens still in existence worldwide.

    Congratulations on that! Is it pontificating to point out to you the most obvious glitches in your Shangri-La? I think you’d agree that the few contributors on this site not including myself are reasonable. And yet none of them are in agreement with your libertarian/free market ideas. That in and of itself is not fatal. Yet i have heard zero and i mean zero in the way of a reasonable defense of your positions. Usually you won’t even attempt to engage when challenged. So do some persuading! Oh, and let me know what other contentions you are asking me to substantiate.

    #39810

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Jake,

    Here’s the thing: You claimed to Davis that you referenced Standard Oil before I asked about it. I double-scanned the thread and saw no such reference, then I asked you to link where you did reference it. You didn’t provide where you had referred to Standard Oil. You only referred anything after I asked.

    Here’s a Pro-Tip: If you’re going to save energy and lessen the Carbon footprint and all that, it’s best not to flip the gas valve back and forth.

    #39811

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Enco,

    I mentioned to Davis that my hypothetical for you about slavery was not pulled out of my ass. The point of the hypothetical is to illustrate that free market, laissez faire business has produced great cruelty and oppression, that when business owners/magnates/tycoons are no molesta por favor it is not going to end well. You were left with the option of either supporting no molesta por favor so that the companies could maximize profits and the slaves could minimize the value of their lives or oppose the vicious companies and thereby negate your utopian business model.

    So when i thought about the hypothetical and the no win choices based on your ideology i began to think about the history of slavery after the civil war. Standard Oil is not the crux of the matter. There have been many companies and private entrepreneurs to do what Standard Oil was doing. There are countless instances of similar abuse created by businesses not the least of which is the reaction to nascent labor movements.

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