Sunday School

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Still, “Lucky”??? Where’s the “luck” in getting shot and killed???

Yes, vs. his wife and/or children, if he’s at all gallant.

Feelz is not an argument.

History will deliver the final verdict.

It is not a sin, but where did you ever make that proclamation when the Russo-Ukrainian War started?

I’m not going to look, but you’re welcome to. I may have at one time stated that Ukraine stood little chance (I was wrong about that) or reminded us that Putin is right that there is a definite Nazi-like presence in certain areas of Ukraine, but I’ve never rooted for Russia and I can guarantee you of that, but you’re welcome to try to find me saying Russia’s incursion was good.

• This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  Unseen.

[PopeBeanieModerator]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

[In reply to @unseen‘s I’m on the right side of history, I feel, on Gaza.]

Feelz is not an argument.

I feel, in this moment of Hamas vs Israeli history, there is no “right side of history”.

Humanity has fucked up here, with no quick fix. All we can do now to inform our future, is to review history, debate, cry, and determine if there’s any way to “start over”. (There probably isn’t, but we can try to keep from failing again.)

[jakelafortParticipant]

Pope’s trope:

I feel, in this moment of Hamas vs Israeli history, there is no “right side of history”.

Humanity has fucked up here, with no quick fix. All we can do now to inform our future, is to review history, debate, cry, and determine if there’s any way to “start over”. (There probably isn’t, but we can try to keep from failing again.)

Starting over begins by acknowledging our failure to appreciate the oneness, sameness or universality of humans. Different populations may have innate albeit insignificant differences. But essentially ya seen one ya seen em all. Subsaharan Africans, Aborigines, Hunkpapa Sioux, Germanic. If you magically transfer one from any population and place them in Hungary in 1428 they will turn out as ignorant Christians. 1724 in China as Buddhists and followers of Confucius. Nobody is home some guy once said. Humans are acted on. For every so called freethinker there are 99 go with the contemporary river humans. In hard core ideological cultures the ratio is skewed to an even greater degree.

Now imagine the ancient Lezbrews who just want to have coffee, conversation, freedom to be who they are and do their thing including casual sex. That is not right think all of the other cultures. You are property of men and ought to bear punishment and bear children. Those poor freedom fighting leave me alone Lezbrews are persecuted century after century. The homophobia only begins to be alleviated as secular cultures emerge.

Somehow and someway secular culture produces an ideology that demonizes the Lezbrews and encourages their persecutors. It hyperfocuses/obssesses over Lezbrews’ putative offenses against the people whom the Lezbrews were once subjugated, humiliated and persecuted. Having attained their autonomy in a tiny patch of ground and surrounded by ideologues who although despising each other for ideological reasons have conspired to at first prevent the Lezbrews autonomy in own state and continuously sought to undo their state. The hatred against Lezbrews is a central tenet of the existence of the greater external population and more intensively of the immediate neighbors. There is no higher good than murdering a Lezbrew in spite of the Lezbrews granting citizenship to their ancient persecutors and greater rights than those same people have outside of Lezreal.

Now imagine that the west and the left specifically are fixated on this one conflict between the Lezbrews who are defending themselves and their persecutors who vow to “resist” until the last syllable of recorded time. Mind you this conflict is not 2 percent of the total carnage and destruction and yet gets 98 percent of the attention. So much so that universities are no longer filled with diverse thinkers. So much so that the ideology of the most extreme is embraced by eager and moronic university students who would upend democracy and spread the evil ideology. So much so that the falsehoods including apartheid and genocide are adopted by mainstream media. So much so that the UN has greater condemnation for Lezreal than all other nations in the voild although Lezreal is the best and most humanist nation in the middle east. The resistance to the Lezraeli must never stop and their crimes never forgiven.

The land was stolen though it was purchased. Ok i suspect you get the picture. Now get the facts and listen to a thinker who is not confused. And you tell me if you have any points of contention. It is only 50 minutes. Answer is pretty straightforward. Debate the lies of the left into ignominy. Educate people. Focus on a critical examination of all human history. Create new norms that are divorced from identity politics. I feel, in this moment of Hamas vs Israeli history, there is no “right side of history”.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

This was your first post in the thread entitled War In Europe, It Has Begun:

Now, bear in mind that today’s weapons of conventional warfare are orders of magnitude more lethal than the corresponding weapons available to both sides (short of the atom bomb, of course) in WW2. Smart bombs, laser-guided missiles, tactical nukes, antitank missiles as well as explosive tank armor, helicopters armed to the teeth with Gatling guns and other high-tech offensive weapons, winged aircraft carrying high precision bombs, antiaircraft missiles, and on and on and on. At the same time, the weaponry carried by modern infantry is high tech compared with the weapons carried by soldiers in WW2.

And let’s not even get into drone warfare, where the attacking country can inflict massive casualties at relatively low cost without risking even one person on their own side.

There were other posts on Russian Thermobaric weapons, a post of a John Mearsheimer video blaming the West for Putin’s invasion, posts on the threat of Nuclear War, posts poo-poo-ing my idea of opening up oil production in the U.S. to supply Ukraine and Europe. And calling me a conservative too?

Not one post that I could find condemning Putin for the invasion of Ukraine.

One good thing is that Jake is no longer as keen on the idea of surrender after October 7.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Enco ya lost me.

One good thing is that Jake is no longer as keen on the idea of surrender after October 7.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Oh wait Enco. By surrender you mean Islam?

I have never been down with Islam. In fact the tolerance, neigh encouragement by the lefties to a barbaric ideology makes me puke.

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Not one post that I could find condemning Putin for the invasion of Ukraine.

You’re actually attributing pro-Russian sympathies to me based on what I did not say. OK. Have you ever expressed an explicit condemnation of sharking or upskirting?

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

I don’t go on TikTok, so I had to look up “sharking.” No I don’t support sharking or upskirting or any nonconsensual sexual act.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine did not have such esoteric terminology and thus is easy to understand.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Jake,

Go back to the thread War In Europe: It Has Begun.

You were ready to surrender Ukraine to Putin when the fight had barely begun. And this despite opposition of Russian Jews to Putin’s invasion and despite Zelynsky being Jewish himself. And despite Putin’s own salaam-ing to Islam. You actually thought globaloney social worker talk would work with a KGB-trained conquering tyrant.

I hate it took October 7th to make you see things differently.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Oh i did not change my mind Enco.

I think a great many lives could have been saved. I would have and i think i said at time let Putin know privately that if any further aggression comes that he will be assassinated and All of Nato countries will attack.

I am not saying there is any ethical justification for Russia. I am just thinking practical. And since that one region is ethnically Russian majority it is something that could come off as cooperative.

China is another area where i would not fuck with it over Taiwan. One of these things has potential to do something more than a little awful.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

If you opposed Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, you were a poor spokesman for making that clear. Russia Today would have lapped up your posts.

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Unseen, I don’t go on TikTok, so I had to look up “sharking.” No I don’t support sharking or upskirting or any nonconsensual sexual act. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine did not have such esoteric terminology and thus is easy to understand.

So you stand behind your implication that if someone doesn’t condemn something explicitly, they must support it.

Well, if you knew me better you’d know my sympathies are with Ukraine not Putin. Here’s an idea: Instead look for comments where I sympathized with Ukraine.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Jake,

Oh i did not change my mind Enco.

I think a great many lives could have been saved. I would have and i think i said at time let Putin know privately that if any further aggression comes that he will be assassinated and All of Nato countries will attack.

Didn’t see that in the thread, but all the NATO nations would have to go along. Not likely since Ukraine isn’t a member and since most of Europe is stupidly beholden to Russia for Oil and Natural Gas. No dice.

I am not saying there is any ethical justification for Russia. I am just thinking practical. And since that one region is ethnically Russian majority it is something that could come off as cooperative.

.

Putin is claiming Ethnic Russians in Ukraine are persecuted and discriminated against, just as Hitler did with Ethnic Germans in the Sudatenland of Czechoslavakia. But like Hitler did, Putin has greater aspirations of Empire. So appeasement fails again.

China is another area where i would not fuck with it over Taiwan. One of these things has potential to do something more than a little awful.

So who would assemble all of Israel’s electronic whiz-bang innovations if Red China conquered Taiwan? Would Israel trust a purhaser of oil from the Mullahs in Iran?

I’m afraid you’re going to have learn like The Donald that not everything can be a “deal.”

And speaking of, would you support ending Israel’s war in Gaza in the name of “saving lives,” even though Hamas still exists and holds hostages?

• This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Quotating
• This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Quotating
• This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Enco,

We really need to discuss some of these matters. These are matters we need to discuss. Full disclosure. That is what i say to Yuki the cat.

See it in thread? You may notice my brain droppings are deposited willy nilly so failing to see it is not surprising. Ideally it would HAVE BEEN (cuz it is water under the ferris wheel) NATO but it could have been USA and other allies independent of Nato. Am sort of surprised you see the dependence on Russian oil and gas as an impediment. Markets are not fixed. It can change. In fact the threat by Nato or USA might entail going elsewhere to purchase oil and gas. During the US civil war the south threatened to withold cotton from nations (I think England) unless they helped in the war. So called King Cotton Diplomacy. Did not work. England ended up getting cotton from India and i forget where else. Ultimately i think the lesson is that those economic realities can be altered and won’t be determinative of major commitments.

We talked about the appeasement issue. I remember Robert was a proponent of not appeasing. I thought and continue to think that it is not apposite in today’s world. And if i am wrong like i said Putin should have been privately threatened (saving face is always important) that any aggression would unleash the dogs of hell on him personally and on Russia. As it stands i think there is an equal or greater chance Putin’s designs are beyond Ukraine. Dishevel Neville.

Israel is already being threatened with greater and greater economic isolation in what i term an international conspiracy. As a result Israel will become more and more self reliant. Cheap labor is easy. There are so many poor women from Philippines and other nations who leave their families behind and work for peanuts. I think you will see more and more military equipment manufactured in Israel as well. I think we can characterize internatioinal shit as deals whether principled, ideological or otherwise.

In terms of Israel Gaza i think probably those hostages should have been sacrificed for the sake of the future. Written off. If you can save any big big bonus but policy and war strategy should not be dependent on Israeli hostages. I know i would not have that position were i to have family or friends in such a position. However negotiating over hostages encourages more hostage taking. It caused the release of idk how many Palestinian criminals. And perhaps Israel is even more circumspect about attacking than they otherwise would be.

Would i support ending the war in Gaza? Completely fact dependent. It is another screw up from the outset. Egypt and any other nation that would agree should have accepted a temporary influx of the millions so that Israel could go to town so to speak. Israel has needlessly sacrificed so many of its own even though it has all of the power. Should have gotten the noncombatants out. Next threaten those scum motherfuckers that they are gonna be fucking virgins lickety split unless they give up the hostages. And when they refused raze that mother fucker to kingdom come hither so that Hamas can cum thither.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

You posted one article entitled: When Vladimir Putin escalates his war, the world must meet him.

This article did praise the Ukrainians for resistance.

Everything else you posted was boasting how Putin and his weaponry were strong like bull, and how all the usual suspect “experts” blamed Ukraine and the West for wearing short skirts and provoking Putin, and the threat of “World War III”. Basically, the Russian equivalent of Lord Haw-Haw, Axis Sally, and Tokyo Rose.

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