unapologetic

Autumn wrote:
War and egalitarianism are largely antithetical absent some pretty desperate conditions which don’t need to exist in this era.

I think that’s a matter of opinion.  The circumstances that gave rise to egalitarianism in our past (personal autonomy, communal sharing, etc.) are antithetical to the circumstances that allowed pa…[Read more]

Unseen wrote:
3) Dominance of a society by men, or the values that uphold such dominance. It is also a loaded word. It’s used pejoratively as well.

That’s the sense I’m using it in.  I believe it comes from nature: in great apes, males compete with each other to control and dominate females so that they can reproduce.  This is opposed by fem…[Read more]

_Robert_ wrote:
Thats the theory, but when the shit really hits the fan, women will look to their men for protection.

That’s an interesting question.  Male protection of women is part of the classical model of patriarchy – of the great ape male, competing with other great ape males to control and protect “his” females in his harem.

But men are…[Read more]

Simon Paynton wrote:
That said, there’s nothing to say that men have to be soft and weak, in order to be non-patriarchal.

Egalitarianism doesn’t imply male emasculation.

_Robert_ wrote:
I would say the West is a more “feminine” culture today than tougher times. Even today in the Mid-East and African regions it’s not something to talk about if you value your health.

I think this gets back to where the patriarchy – the ideal of the “manly male” – is weak, and where it’s strong, and why.  Islam used to be tolera…[Read more]

Unseen wrote:
there’s an important distinction

Sexuality-non-conformance – gender-non-conformance.  They’re very similar.

Autumn wrote:
A look of realization dawns on his face. “Ah! A common confusion. ‘Mein Freund’ is how we say my boyfriend. If you want to say your friend, you should say “ein Freund.”

Yes, try saying “I am hot” to a French person.

Unseen wrote:
Don’t lump gays and trans people together unless you want to include every other minority who feel left behind, laughed at, excluded with them.

They’re discriminated against on the basis of sexuality and gender preference.  Those are similar enough to lump them in together.  Also, as @autumn says, they overlap quite heavily.

Unseen wrote:
Apples and oranges.

Both are varieties of fruit.

Autumn wrote:
But the move away from treating trans identities as a disease in need of curing is based on a long history of clinical treatment.

Yes, something is only a disorder, in my opinion, if it harms the self or others.  It’s society that has harmed both gay and trans people.

Unseen wrote:
If nature gives people the wrong genitalia (or if they so believe), clearly something is wrong either in the genes or in the mind.

I think it goes deeper than belief.  Belief is just the surface manifestation.  At the moment, if something is “wrong”, it’s fixed by people psychologically identifying with/biologically changing to t…[Read more]

Unseen wrote:
I simply find it hard to believe that this belief that one’s genitalia are lying to you is not based in psychology rather than genetics.

If Nature is dishing out the wrong genitalia, I’d like to know how that could possibly happen and isn’t it really more likely something going on in the subject’s mind?

I believe it’s like being g…[Read more]

I know someone who’s just come out as trans.  It’s a genuine thing.  He is much happier now identifying as male than being a she.

Autumn wrote:
’cause if we’re talking any other facet of fairness in women’s sports then the only people who give a shit are female athletes and a subset of feminists, I suppose.

Most people care about fairness and justice, for themselves and others, which is why there are non-trans trans activists.  But I think this situation represents a genuin…[Read more]

Unseen wrote:
So, thinking out loud that it’s very very strange that seemingly all of a sudden people—especially children—are discovering that Nature gave them the wrong genitals is a way of suppressing people’s rights?

Some people may think it’s strange, and what that means is that some people think it’s strange, like a lot of things.

I believe…[Read more]

Autumn wrote:
were you merely thinking aloud

That, and aiming for you to say stuff about it.

Autumn wrote:
It’s not the same.

I can see your point: one side is fighting for their own rights; the other is fighting to prevent them having rights.

At the same time, it’s not quite as simple as that, since there’s a kind of “three-body problem” – some feminists feel that cisgendered women’s rights are threatened by certain transgender r…[Read more]

Autumn wrote:
The scare quotes around ‘debate’ pretty much sums up the sentiment. Most of what I hear is a lot of noise that kills any actual debate or discussion.

Unfortunately there is a lot of noise coming from both sides, that doesn’t necessarily help anybody.  I don’t mean you @autumn but some of the more knee-jerking trans activists, and…[Read more]

Unseen wrote:
When you know you’re right and that there is no other side to the argument, all sorts of prohibitions seem not just possible, but absolutely necessary.