Anyone here into cryptocurrency?

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This topic contains 102 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  _Robert_ 5 days, 14 hours ago.

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  • #36753

    Unseen
    Participant

    I have started following this guy’s show fairly religiously. Despite the name of the channel, Morning Invest, he’s not some pumped-up right wing pro-business at all costs windbag, like so many. He’s extremely progressive. For example, wanted The Squad to hold up the stimulus bill until it had the $15 minimum wage back in it.

    He got me thinking about alternatives to the US Dollar. He thinks the dollar may crash, but even if it doesn’t, between the $1.9T stimulus bill, which Biden just signed into law, and a proposed $4.0T infrastructure bill, I am sure there will be fairly heavy inflation. He recommends real estate, precious metals, or cryptocurrency as ways to preserve and gain value in hard times.

    So, on March 1 I opened an account on a well-known cryptocurrency exchange, deposited $500 and after converting it to a Bitcoin share and after some fees, it was valued at $472. (BTW, I am rounding the values to the nearest dollar.) As of today, nine days later $472 has become $544 just moments ago. The value is constantly fluctuating, so it might be $525 or $575 by the end of the day, bearing in mind that unlike the stock market, there really are no days for Bitcoin. It is traded every minute of every day.

    So, anyway, am I alone? Does anyone else here own some crypto? What has been your experience?

    What are your reasons, if any, for getting into it or not getting into it?

    (BTW, can Reg or some other admin knock that dollar sign out of the headline? I have no idea how it got there and I can’t seem to delete it.)

    • This topic was modified 1 month ago by  Unseen.
    • This topic was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by  PopeBeanie.
    #36754

    jakelafort
    Participant

    My friend tried to buy bitcoin when it was just beginning. Would have made a bundle but could not get transaction done and got frustrated and said fuck it.

    I don’t profess any expertise in this area but bitcoin strikes me as tulips without the tulips. It is nothing but it is being treated like it is everything. When the crash comes and surer than shit it will i think bitcoin will go the way of the tulip craze.

    #36756

    _Robert_
    Participant

    I had some bitcoin in my day-trading account, and all I could do is swap it for dollars, so not a real digital wallet. It did well and then I sold it to buy airline stocks that also are doing well. Until it becomes stable, it seems purely speculative and not any sort of dollar replacement. I get the idea that it can be an efficient means of holding and transferring value without any central bank/middleman involvement but that also makes it good for money laundering and other criminal activity. Another risk is when the US or other governments issue efficient digital currency…BC could crash.

    As for inflation, the central banks and the Fed claim they can control it by raising interest rates, reducing liquidity and tightening credit. It slows economic growth and demand, which puts downward pressure on prices. Watch the stock market buckle when the Fed raises rates, maybe towards the end of the year..depending when we recover. Millions of retirees would rather be in high yielding, safe treasury bonds than in this crazy stock market.

     

     

     

     

    #36757

    Unseen
    Participant

    Similar to fiat currencies, Bitcoin’s value is not backed by a single commodity. However, just because Bitcoin isn’t backed by a commodity or a centralized authority, does not mean that it does not hold any value. Instead the cryptocurrency functions off of a supply and demand system. Yes, Bitcoin has built a $200 billion market capitalization off of supply and demand (and a few other things). Not only that, the single financial innovation created an industry that is now worth $351 billion.

    Two of the biggest factors behind Bitcoin’s value is its complicated mathematical construction and its a limited supply. The blockchain technology behind it and the fact that there will only ever be 21 million Bitcoin is the reason why the cryptocurrency has soared in value over the past 10 years of existence. With a limited supply, the deflationary cryptocurrency will only increase with value over time, unlike its fiat counterparts.

    (Source: What Is Behind The Value Of Bitcoin?)

    I think the value behind Bitcoin and other cryptos is the privacy factor. The only way to damage that advantage over fiat currency, I think, would be if a government (any government) were able to crack the security and anonymity of the data flow.

    Unlike tulips, I don’t think people are suddenly going to think security and anonymity have little value.

    #36758

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Unseen, that sounds good but i think you have to ask what happens when the market crashes. I doubt bitcoin will react with the market as a whole. It will either perform much better or much worse. My guess is worse but i should stick to what i know which is race horses.

    #36759

    Unseen
    Participant

    Unseen, that sounds good but i think you have to ask what happens when the market crashes. I doubt bitcoin will react with the market as a whole. It will either perform much better or much worse. My guess is worse but i should stick to what i know which is race horses.

    Bitcoin isn’t tied to the market. It’s a good place to be when the market or dollar crashes. The value might and probably would go up.

    #36760

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Unseen, that is true. But a sharp decline will cause people to evaluate all of their assets.

    #36761

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Unseen, that is true. But a sharp decline will cause people to evaluate all of their assets.

    If all hell breaks loose at least you can buy food with cash or gold. Imagine the run on BC if the power grids go down. I keep a cash stash in a hollowed out tree.

    Personally I think financial transparency is more valuable to society than privacy. Unless you are Elon Musk or something.

    Unseen, you are worried about AI yet investing in BC. Explain the logic in that.

    #36762

    Unseen
    Participant

    Unseen, that is true. But a sharp decline will cause people to evaluate all of their assets.

    If all hell breaks loose at least you can buy food with cash or gold. Imagine the run on BC if the power grids go down. I keep a cash stash in a hollowed out tree.

    Personally I think financial transparency is more valuable to society than privacy. Unless you are Elon Musk or something.

    Unseen, you are worried about AI yet investing in BC. Explain the logic in that.

    Who is taking gold for food? Safeway? Kroger? Giant Eagle? Walmart? It seems to me to spend it practically, you’d convert it into dollars first. You can convert Bitcoin into dollars fairly quickly, too. If the power grid goes down, you’ll have a hard time converting the gold to cash. Or do you keep your gold in a hole in a tree, too?

    Privacy is valued by individuals, not society. With crypto, it’s also eliminating the middleman, who generally takes a cut.

    I see AI as a potential existential threat to all mankind. Bitcoin, like any investment, carries a risk with it. It’s no different than a stock, which won’t be worth much, either, if the stock market, brokers, and banks all go offline.

    #36763

    Davis
    Moderator

    …that’s why I have all my savings in gold. Everything will crash except Gold. Do I hide it under my mattress? Of course not…I had my bones replaced with Gold. That way they government can’t come and steal it. Nobody aint gettin at my hard earned income!

    Newsflash: Massive deposit of one million tons of pure Gold found in Northern Canada.

    #36764

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Unseen, that is true. But a sharp decline will cause people to evaluate all of their assets.

    If all hell breaks loose at least you can buy food with cash or gold. Imagine the run on BC if the power grids go down. I keep a cash stash in a hollowed out tree.

    Personally I think financial transparency is more valuable to society than privacy. Unless you are Elon Musk or something.

    Unseen, you are worried about AI yet investing in BC. Explain the logic in that.

    Who is taking gold for food? Safeway? Kroger? Giant Eagle? Walmart? It seems to me to spend it practically, you’d convert it into dollars first. You can convert Bitcoin into dollars fairly quickly, too. If the power grid goes down, you’ll have a hard time converting the gold to cash. Or do you keep your gold in a hole in a tree, too? Privacy is valued by individuals, not society. With crypto, it’s also eliminating the middleman, who generally takes a cut. I see AI as a potential existential threat to all mankind. Bitcoin, like any investment, carries a risk with it. It’s no different than a stock, which won’t be worth much, either, if the stock market, brokers, and banks all go offline.

    If the system crashes, gold will do very well in street markets, forget supermarkets, the shelves are empty…the wealthy typically hold large amounts of physical gold and silver (in small chunks) for that very reason. Gold an silver have become a valuable commodities for manufacturing and have lost some of their appeal as hedges against stocks lately. Maybe BC is hurting gold, IDK? I don’t have any physical gold at the moment, just a bit of silver. In any event BC, stocks, bonds, 401Ks, IRAs, bank accounts are all useless in a big financial crash or natural disaster. Always good to have a cache of rice and beans, a self contained water system, some cash, and precious metals. Not a prepper…but I do go an extra mile above the average household, probably because of hurricane season.

    #36770

    Unseen
    Participant

    Unseen, that is true. But a sharp decline will cause people to evaluate all of their assets.

    If all hell breaks loose at least you can buy food with cash or gold. Imagine the run on BC if the power grids go down. I keep a cash stash in a hollowed out tree.

    Personally I think financial transparency is more valuable to society than privacy. Unless you are Elon Musk or something.

    Unseen, you are worried about AI yet investing in BC. Explain the logic in that.

    Who is taking gold for food? Safeway? Kroger? Giant Eagle? Walmart? It seems to me to spend it practically, you’d convert it into dollars first. You can convert Bitcoin into dollars fairly quickly, too. If the power grid goes down, you’ll have a hard time converting the gold to cash. Or do you keep your gold in a hole in a tree, too? Privacy is valued by individuals, not society. With crypto, it’s also eliminating the middleman, who generally takes a cut. I see AI as a potential existential threat to all mankind. Bitcoin, like any investment, carries a risk with it. It’s no different than a stock, which won’t be worth much, either, if the stock market, brokers, and banks all go offline.

    If the system crashes, gold will do very well in street markets, forget supermarkets, the shelves are empty…the wealthy typically hold large amounts of physical gold and silver (in small chunks) for that very reason. Gold an silver have become a valuable commodities for manufacturing and have lost some of their appeal as hedges against stocks lately. Maybe BC is hurting gold, IDK? I don’t have any physical gold at the moment, just a bit of silver. In any event BC, stocks, bonds, 401Ks, IRAs, bank accounts are all useless in a big financial crash or natural disaster. Always good to have a cache of rice and beans, a self contained water system, some cash, and precious metals. Not a prepper…but I do go an extra mile above the average household, probably because of hurricane season.

    What is the gold equivalent of a penny, nickel, dime, quarter, dollar bill? How would you use gold to pay for a loaf of bread? With no government to deal with hoarding and gouging, prepare to be screwed, blewed, and tattooed. When someone realizes you really need or want something and demands an unreasonable amount for it, what do you do?

    What I’m saying is, if things get bad, having gold can be a liability. The law of the jungle will prevail.

    Do you have a secure shelter and a gun?

    Consider:

    I think the value of gold in a post-collapse world is questionable at best.

    In a post-apocalyptic scenario, there will be a number of items that are going to be far more valuable than gold. I know my main focus will be things like food, water, shelter, weapons, bullets, land, clothing, etc…. Things that will keep you alive; thus hold their value after a collapse.

    In the short-term, gold may have some perceived value; those that have it may be able to use it for trading.  But if things go really bad, items like water, food, ammo, and clothing will be 1000 times more valuable than gold.

    Gold, just like stocks, bonds and real estate, are only worth what people are willing to pay (or trade) for it. If the system collapses, what do you think gold will really be worth? (Source: Is gold worthless after an economic collapse?)

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Unseen.
    #36773

    Unseen
    Participant

    My $472 (March 1) just became $561. I might be 2 or 3 days away from making $100.

    #36777

    Unseen
    Participant

    Only indirectly related, but this is how wild things have gotten. Have you heard about NFT’s?

    What’s An NFT? And Why Are People Paying Millions To Buy Them?

    #36781

    Unseen
    Participant

    Only indirectly related, but this is how wild things have gotten. Have you heard about NFT’s? What’s An NFT? And Why Are People Paying Millions To Buy Them?

    Now, if you want to make a comparison with the great tulip mania’s boom and bust, I wonder if NFT’s are the more apt comparison than Bitcoin?

    A JPG file made by a digital artist known as Beeple sold Thursday for almost $70 million by Christie’s auction house. That price set a new record for the increasingly popular market for digital-only art — and makes Beeple’s piece the third most-expensive work sold by a living artist at auction, according to a statement by Christie’s.

    The artwork, a digital collage called “Everydays — The First Five Thousand Days,” is what’s known as an NFT, or nonfungible token. NFTs signal ownership and authenticity of digital works of art by recording the sale through blockchain technology.  

    “Artists have been using hardware and software to create artwork and distribute it on the internet for the last 20 plus years but there was never a real way to truly own and collect it,” Beeple, whose real name is Mike Winkelmann, said in a statement Thursday. “I believe we are witnessing the beginning of the next chapter in art history, digital art.”

    (Source: Beeple JPG File Sells For $69 Million, Setting Crypto Art Record)

    Years ago, someone told me that digital photography would never be able to fetch the astronomical prices of analog photography because (a) after a limited number of prints, the original negative could either be destroyed or included with the purchase if it’s a one-off sale rather than a limited number of prints, and (b) copies of analog photos taken off the original print would always be lower in quality than the original, whereas a copy of the original file or a copy of such a copy would be exactly the same as the original.

    That was before the invention of blockchaining.

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