Anyone here into cryptocurrency?
March 28, 2021 at 10:34 pm #36933
The French healthcare system is very good. It is government funded and universally affordable. As an European citizen I am entitled to access it, if needed, in the same way as a French person can access Irish health services.
15,000 deaths from heat-stroke in one month in 2003, mostly in hospitals and rest homes, in a supposedly developed First World Nation, is not good by any measure. As problematic as U.S. health-care is, climate control is not an issue for patients.
And given how Ireland supervised the mother-and-child homes for around 70 years, I don’t have much confidence in their health-care system either. Lots of atrocities can be covered up in slickly-worded prognoses and coroner’s reports.March 28, 2021 at 10:39 pm #36934
The Italian health system has universal healthcare for all citizens too. If you don’t make a fuss about having a sticky plaster pulled off you knee they will give you Gelato for being molto bene.
IIRC, they were hardest hit in Europe when the initial COVID-19 wave struck. And sweet death in a cup? No thanks. Too many of those and they’ll be lobbing the leg off.March 30, 2021 at 9:34 pm #36941
Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator
The 2003 heatwave in France was an extreme event with temperatures of over 100F for long periods of time. The majority of the elderly people that died were at home or in privately run “retirement homes”. Even during the average warm summer many houses are cool and can even feel cold on warm nights. They are built with concrete while most American houses are timber framed and retain the heat. I think the biggest cause was the fact than it happened in August when France practically shuts down for annual holidays so less home visits happened and fewer staff were working in the homes. It was one of those “once in a lifetime events” (which will become more frequent) and one that took everyone off-guard I don’t think your example can be used as a powerful argument to claim the French healthcare system is an impoverished system.
The example of the COVID deaths in Italy is also an outlier event. The system was overwhelmed by the sudden outbreak of COVID. Many of the hospitals that were fully occupied have some of the best medical equipment in the world with staff trained to very high levels of competence. If this was not the case then I suspect a lot more people would have died. Life without an occasional gelato? Why the Greek gods had to settle for mere ambrosia!
As for the disgraceful “mother-and-child” historical events in Ireland, they happened because there was no healthcare available to unmarried mothers thanks to the Catholic Church which was (and still is) a racist, homophobic and misogynistic cult. The hospital system was run by the nuns at the time and this was a legacy of British imperialism. Ireland has existing structures dated back 8000 years but we only became a Republic in 1949. It is really only in the last 20 years that we have started to shake off the legacy of religion and it is an ongoing battle. But the lack of care shown to these women and children is in no way indicative of the Irish healthcare service as it is today. We are regularly at the forefront of medical advances which help everyone. Now go find me a hospital without an Irish nurse in it 😊March 31, 2021 at 1:14 am #36943
Correct me if i am mistaken Enco., you would rather maintain your political principles or political ideology than eliminate a great deal of human suffering? USA has out of control health care costs thanks to capitalism and tens of millions of uninsured Americans. Other countries have reduced health care costs and their citizens are insured and yet you point to irrelevant shit to undermine their political means to a better life.April 1, 2021 at 3:38 pm #36944
Do health care professionals in France think that people don’t get sick or need care in August???
Look, we have vacations here in the States too, but the vacation time begins a year after full-time employment, depending on the hire date. Consequently, vacation times vary from person to person and are typically scattered through the year, depending on individual preference. This also allows for better coverage of needed work.
And France is not a hermit kingdom, so it could import HVAC units to facilities. This wave of heat deaths was a failure to imagine and grasp that things can go wrong and that rational minds prepare for that. This is precisely the blind mindset that prevails when people live under cradle-to-grave security. It is “the-dog-ate-my-homework” level crap that is inexcuseable when lives are at stake.
And since the Roman Catholic Church and religion in general poisons everything it touches, it would be foolhardy to think that the homicidal negligence in Irish mother-and-child homes didn’t transfer to health care. Ditto with Italy. Health care professionals in Ireland were already involved with abuse in the homes by their knowledge and complicity. And no one has had their Nuremberg Trial for this, so the perpetrators are still out there.
A cup of gelato from the likes of these health care systems would come off as a sickening, condescending, hush-up bribe to me and it should for any patient.
April 1, 2021 at 6:48 pm #36948
- This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spacing
- This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling
- This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by TheEncogitationer. Reason: More correction, because unlike religion and governments, I acknowledge error
Jesus H. Christ, Mary and Joseph and the jackass!
ENCO! Tell me you are joking so i can laugh.
Cradle to grave security produces a blind mindset but capitalism without enough security produces nunofit? We just saw people dying in nursing homes like flies on fly paper because of a failure to plan or care. And caring occurs to a greater degree when people take care of people. As to Ireland ya gotta be kidding me. We have a gazillion rapist priests here along with orphans abused by nuns and i don’t hear you imputing that knowledge of it taints our health care workers. By the way see Spotlight for a great movie on that topic. We all know that doctors and health care workers can have twisted beliefs but can compartmentalize and do their job well. Also we have some shit doctors here and less sophisticated treatment modalities and procedures than parts of Europe. And more important than instances of fucking up or anecdotes which can be discovered anywhere humans breathe; and ought not be trotted out to support your political ideology you are missing a major reality staring you in the face-that Americans are without health insurance, tens of millions are without it and are suffering or vulnerable.
THEY ARE DOING IT RIGHT. WE ARE RETARDED IN LARGE MEASURE BECAUSE OF INFANTILE LABELING. You claim to care about people so why in the living fuck can’t we Americans emulate Europeans? I challenge you to watch Seaspiracy on Netflix and contemplate how capitalism is in play in the most sickening way. I see shit constantly and think to myself …there it is again, capitalism causing another major hosing. Even so i am not endorsing any other form of government or economics with a little hybridization because ya gotta go with the least harm model. If you stop being an ideologue and care about consequences/people it is easy to see that we desperately need socialism in health care.April 3, 2021 at 3:20 am #36949
Do you always use false dichotomies, ad hominem, ad populum, emotional tirades, and straw-manning with all your opposition? It does make discussions really tedious.April 3, 2021 at 3:52 am #36950
Encogitationer, do you ever think?
Can you, are you capable of ratiocination without utilizing the lens of your ideology and the ready anecdotes and propaganda?
Anyways it is same ole same…party before country…ideology before people…confirmation bias…the ice capades…refrozen ice cream…April 3, 2021 at 3:55 am #36951
Oh, and remember i am the guy who told you to keep your government handout. I have to get points for that!April 4, 2021 at 12:02 am #36952
Enco you really are an expert at taking an over-all comparison and then trying to poke tiny holes in the better example, ignore or gloss over the huge holes in the lesser example and then somehow come out on the winning side. And the little holes that you poke become more and more ridiculous and desperate it is impossible to take you seriously. Heat-stroke deaths in France during an extremely unusual and totally unpredictable year of fierce heat? Ruthless nuns decades ago in Ireland? What the fuck? Is that the best you can do? Meanwhile Americans die by the thousands every year, pointlessly from being under or non-insured or unable to afford simple medicine and you stand by this? What a sick, heartless, cruel and selfish ideology. No wonder so many parts of America have become so dysfunctional and broken. It’s “go fuck yourself” ideology in the richest country the world has ever seen. Nice.April 4, 2021 at 1:19 am #36953
Unfortunately Encothink is all to typical. How complicated is this issue?
If you don’t have an agenda or ideology it is simply unconscionable the state of affairs in USA as to health care and uninsured Americans. European nations have a model that works. USA does not.April 6, 2021 at 11:59 am #36965
European nations have a model that works. USA does not.
Let’s not forget: Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan, Barbados (and that’s only to name first world countries). Even some second world countries have reasonable health systems where everyone is covered (such as Chile and Kazakhstan).
Basically every single first world country with the sole exception of the United States has some form of universal health care…and have great pity for Americans who spend too much on health insurance and even more pity (obviously) on uninsured Americans. They see it for what it is: either Americans with a cruel outlook towards those who have less or who have been brainwashed by conservative media to fear UHC as a boogeyman or as communism or as “structurally flawed” for all sorts of dubious reasons (like French heatwaves or Irish nuns). UHC systems vary on quality and it very much depends on their country’s wealth and their commitment to the system. Seeing as the United States is an enormous world power and super ridonculously wealthy…there is no reason why the United States couldn’t do it even better than even some Scandinavian countries.April 6, 2021 at 2:10 pm #36969
The US is all set up for special interests and loop holes. For years I just paid maximum taxes and received almost nothing in return. About ten years ago I decided enough of that and started learning and working the system just like the big dogs. Huge difference to the bottom line.
Nothing in the US is easy, fair or universal. The system favors those with money and the ability to work the system or hire people to do it for you. Compared to the fleecing that goes on by the wealthy, the real welfare paid out costs a mere pittance.
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