Anyone here into cryptocurrency?

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This topic contains 102 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  _Robert_ 5 days, 13 hours ago.

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  • #36853

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Econ, I am not as worried the super wealthy are gonna let their vast fortunes in US dollars inflate away. When the Fed finally tightens up to protect their dollars, there will be pain for organizations that can’t generate cash flow and for our 401Ks.

    We already have the worse form of socialism, BTW. Corporate socialism, that is. Yeah, the poor airlines execs were busy buying back their own stocks and bonds and got bailed out for their greedy efforts. The handout to the consumers was only 30% of that first round.

    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-anatomy-of-the-2-trillion-covid-19-stimulus-bill/

    The stimulus was and is poorly aimed. It should have been targeted more towards those who are really suffering and vaccination distribution. But I’ll take it over a tax cut for the wealthy any day. I mean that’s basically what we have been doing for the last 30 years.

    #36854

    jakelafort
    Participant

    There is a sugar pie?

    What else am i missing out on?

    #36855

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Robert,

    Econ, I am not as worried the super wealthy are gonna let their vast fortunes in US dollars inflate away. When the Fed finally tightens up to protect their dollars, there will be pain for organizations that can’t generate cash flow and for our 401Ks.

    The wealthy have no more choice in The Federal Reserve or how it is run than any of us.  And at the rate our Government is spending, they will be asking the Fed to run the money presses non-stop in perpetuity.  Any tightening by the Fed will mean higher taxation for all.  (Borrowing does not count; that’s just kicking the can down the road, to be paid for in inflation of the money supply or more taxation later.)

     

    We already have the worse form of socialism, BTW. Corporate socialism, that is. Yeah, the poor airlines execs were busy buying back their own stocks and bonds and got bailed out for their greedy efforts. The handout to the consumers was only 30% of that first round.

    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-anatomy-of-the-2-trillion-covid-19-stimulus-bill/

    If you have paid attention to my dialogues with Unseen about Elon Musk’s wasting of our taxdollars, you’ll know that I despise Corporate Welfare Socialism as much as any other form of Socialism.

    Corporations such as Tesla, SpaceX, Chrysler, GM, Ford, The Savings and Loans, Bank of America, AIG, Goldman-Sachs, all of them, should live and prosper or go broke and die by their own efforts just like the rest of us adults.  As Scrooge would ask: “Are there no Bankrupcy Courts?  Are there no auctioneers for assets?  Are there no reorganization agents?”

    The stimulus was and is poorly aimed. It should have been targeted more towards those who are really suffering and vaccination distribution. But I’ll take it over a tax cut for the wealthy any day. I mean that’s basically what we have been doing for the last 30 years.

    The only two things governments should have done in this crisis are,

    One, put down the months of looting, rioting, and insurrection in the streets that have probably been the biggest spreader events of all,

    and Two,

    Get out of the way of efforts of private individuals and companies to bring vaccines and other life-sustaining supplies to market.

    Government’s done nothing but get in the way with “certificates of need” imposed on hospitals getting beds and new rooms, confiscation of ventilators, FDA and BATFE regulations on alcohol distillers making sanitizer, schitzoid and contradictory pronouncements on masks, and laws against “price gouging,” the very “gouging” that would have prevented panic runs on supplies.

    The faster government can get back to it’s proper role, the quicker we can get rid of this pandemic, get back to a normal life, and, of course, give the Doctor-killing, bug-spreading Commisars in Beijing a much-needed reckoning.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: A word here and there
    #36857

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Kristina,

    I doubt they are ‘forgetting’. You wrote a bunch of incoherent statements not really backed up by research or data. It’s bias, suspicion and fear-mongering without content. I mean, gas prices going up? It’s because of the storms in Texas. I am not saying the prices needed to go up that much. I am saying oil producers were given a reason to jack up the price and they took it. What does that have to do with anything else you were going on about?

    All of what I wrote is ground-level “I was there” stuff and it is a work in progress.  I know it’s anecdotal but it can be compiled, organized, collated, and shared like any other data elsewhere and it would most likely show the same pattern.

    Oil and gas prices in a marketplace, like every other price, are not the products of the mere whim of one or even many suppliers, but of supply and demand.  The increase in money chasing goods from the stimulus checks creates the increased demand and all the factors of production decrease the supply, and the two put together mean higher prices.

    Storms may temporarily reduce supply (though from reports I seen, Texans are now getting flooded basements, so snow is melting in at least some spots.)  But the biggest reducer of supply for the U.S. is the cutoff of The Keystone Pipeline by edict of Sleepy, Creepy, Crazy, Cranky, Tankie, Corn-Pop, Lunch-Bucket, Shot-Gun Joe.

    All of it taken together means a rapid spike in the gas prices and from the looks of things on the stimulus front, it may never stop until spending stops, the Pipeline is back on, or it all collapses.

    #36858

    _Robert_
    Participant

    The wealthy have no more choice in The Federal Reserve or how it is run than any of us.  And at the rate our Government is spending, they will be asking the Fed to run the money presses non-stop in perpetuity.  Any tightening by the Fed will mean higher taxation for all.  (Borrowing does not count; that’s just kicking the can down the road, to be paid for in inflation of the money supply or more taxation later.)

    The Fed will let the economy run as long as it can. Inflation moving from 2% to 3 or 3.5% for a few years is expected. If consumers ‘go ape shit’ all at once with pent up demand, prices will rise sharply on goods that are under supplied. But this is a global economy (unlike the 70s when we had to buy American) and consumers will find cheap goods online and offshore and prices will come down. Government debt is just the people’s surplus and well Americans are exactly not great savers. It is the wealthy who can afford to lock up cash and squash infrastructure efforts. No a single high speed train in the entire country. Pathetic.

    The best financial scenario and times of reasonable equality in America followed the huge government spending efforts on post-depression infrastructure, social programs and war bonds. Nothing fails like prayer or barnyard macro-economic wisdom.

     

    #36863

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Hey Enco., Burn Dawg Sanders was quoted as saying two guys (Bezos and Musk) have greater wealth than the bottom 40 percent of Americans. If so it is roughly two guys v. 131 million and two guys wins. Are you good with that result? Law of the jungle? Big cats eat dik diks, right? You want pure libertarian Atlas shit himself dynamics, right? We had a time not so long ago when laborers had no power. Free markets. No real regulation. Wasn’t golden honey for laborers or consumers. It was quite the splendid time for a few exploiting business tycoons.

    We have tens of millions of uninsured Americans. Would free markets and virtually no government solve that crisis? You are being told by people who have experienced socialized medicine that it works. What we have is shameful. But you want to subordinate the best interest of Americans to your ideology? Or do you have a solution that you have kept close to the vest? It really tears you a new one to know and see so many poor people get just a little bit of cash? You also can’t stand that people in historically disadvantaged groups have any protection against the isms? Those are trick laws, right? But you are fine, more than fine, with a few hosing many?

    Ikaw ha.

    #36866

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Jake,

    Hey Enco., Burn Dawg Sanders was quoted as saying two guys (Bezos and Musk) have greater wealth than the bottom 40 percent of Americans. If so it is roughly two guys v. 131 million and two guys wins. Are you good with that result?

    Bezos and Musk don’t deserve subsidies or bailouts any more than the get-your-shit-and-go crowd deserve 81″ big-screen TVs and barrels of Utz Cheese Puffs at taxpayer’s expense.  Both rich and poor alike need to do productive work and provide a wanted good or service to get ahead.

    By the way, the same Bernie Sanders who tirades against the 1% percent also famously said that “no one needs 23 brands of deodorant.”  Are Capitalists monopolists or are they giving us too much competition and choice?  So which is it, Bernie??

    (Another by the way, there are medical reasons we can’t all use the same deodorant, such as allergies and blocked sweat glands.  Yet another reason I wouldn’t trust Bernie Sanders with a First Aid Kit, let alone a nation’s health system.)

    Law of the jungle? Big cats eat dik diks, right?

    I’m not sure what you’re feeding the cats, Jake, but Sylvester begs to differ 😁:

    You want pure libertarian Atlas shit himself dynamics, right? We had a time not so long ago when laborers had no power. Free markets. No real regulation. Wasn’t golden honey for laborers or consumers. It was quite the splendid time for a few exploiting business tycoons.

    We have tens of millions of uninsured Americans. Would free markets and virtually no government solve that crisis?

    Yes.  Getting bureaucratic regulations and third-party financing from Medicare and Medicaid would health care much more affordable.  Hospitals could no longer get away with charging $38 for two Tylenols if government didn’t pay for it.  And prostheses could be financed on a small-balanced credit card at a (literal) GoodFeet Store if third-parties weren’t involved with financing health care.

    You are being told by people who have experienced socialized medicine that it works.

    Works towards what end?  It isn’t towards better health, but towards whatever the “single payer” wants.

    Romania’s Nicolai Ceauceşcu wanted his 200 million man army of Macedonians, so his “single-payer” system meant no birth control or abortion.  Combined with his broke-down autoclaves and recycled surgical tools, all it got Romania was a generation of AIDS orphans.

    France’s “single-payer” system didn’t see any healh benefit in HVAC and refrigeration and as a result, 15,000 Franch citizens in hospitals and rest homes died in one month from heat-stroke in August 2003.

    Yeah, I’ll pass on the bedside manner of “single-payer.”

    What we have is shameful. But you want to subordinate the best interest of Americans to your ideology? Or do you have a solution that you have kept close to the vest? It really tears you a new one to know and see so many poor people get just a little bit of cash? You also can’t stand that people in historically disadvantaged groups have any protection against the isms? Those are trick laws, right? But you are fine, more than fine, with a few hosing many?

    Those so-called “poor” cashing their stimulus checks have more than me and 99 percent of all people on the face of the Earth and I’m still refusing the stimulus sent my way.  Who’s better off?

    Ikaw ha.

    Yeah, Ha.

    #36868

    _Robert_
    Participant

    I  think it is a childlike view; the libertarian dream that inefficient regulations be removed and the “efficient” courts will somehow liberate us from the greed of corporate boardrooms. What could possibly go wrong with leaded gasoline, selling booze and e-cigs to children or dumping toxins in the marsh just outside of town (like my own employer got caught doing). Do I want my company pension (essentially a contract that partly enticed me to select that employer) to be 100% invested in the ongoing crypto bubble?

    Most regulation comes from some systemic abuse, however the regulations do get crazy in their implementation. No doubt about it. Sooooo the courts interpret the finer points of the law instead of deciding every single trillionth case. Libertarians I have talked to seem to miss the efficiency inherent in regulations (and where they come from) and just see it all as a big pain in the ass to the “angelic” business community.

     

    #36869

    Davis
    Moderator

    I’ve spoken with many liberterians who think that the only moral form of society is one where the government takes care of the most sparse infrastructure (roads and maybe a couple basic utilities), protection (the most minimal first responders and military) and the lightest taxation. And to guarantee a few basic rights. Everything else is up to the hard work and industry of the individual.

    This is of course either a) a preposterous fantasy b) the rantings of self-centred dickheads who already have the resources/determination/education/intelligence to succeed.

    In any case I’ve never gotten anything approaching a remotely satisfactory answer to the following two questions:

    1. If everything is up to the individual then why should the government even build roads or provide policing or fire services? Shouldn’t that also be entirely private with citizens building their own infrastructure and calling private first responders by choice and from their own wallet?

    2. Under the obvious logic of this system how would society deal with the following things, by what mechanism, who pays for it and who enforces it:Abandoned children. Homeless with no family who have mental problems? How to delineate slave like conditions with gross labour abuses. If laws are to be super minimalistic then at what point to issues such as the age of sexual consent of minors, the use of toxic chemicals in consumer products or the need to invest in essential industries when private companies won’t?

    So far…I’ve got nothing but absurd responses or uhhhh…uhhhh…[terrible improvise answer] or I don’t know…but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t work.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by  Davis.
    #36871

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Enco, you shuck and jive to stay alive but you are substance deprived.

    My point about Bezos and Musk is twofold. We have regulations and anti-trust laws and have arrived at massive corporate power that creates a shocking gap in wealth. Presumably in a pure libertarian capitalist nation the state of affairs would be magnified. Is reduced taxation going to ameliorate capitalism’s atrocious outcomes? How so? Are you okay with a spartan nation in which those who can not compete die or suffer? Charity and families or fuck you and die?

    We have a major crisis in health care. We all know it. And again you are being told by people who have experienced it that other countries are getting it right or at least doing it in a way that is passable. In my estimation there is no concern greater than health. Without it the richest individual with the best family and friends is SOL. I am of the opinion that profit motive ought not be a factor in health care. The problem is not Medicare. It is capitalism. Medicare reduces the cost of health care. Charge them a ridiculous fee and they simply don’t pay it. They have a pay scale for all services. They pay 80 percent of allowable expenses. If we had one national insurer the costs would be reduced further. On the other hand capitalism produces unconscionable price gouging and not simply for new drugs…So you tell me how libertarian principles will get the masses health care. Your contra examples in France and Romania are like pointing to the few cases where people die as a result of a reaction to a vaccine. Romania is not even relevant. It is a different form of government. Not sure France is either.

    The other point i made or was going to before i stopped is that businesses have become so powerful that they are creating/causing laws that are against the interests of the citizenry. Additionally in their freedom to compete without hindrance they are causing a de facto obstruction in the free dissemination of information. They are free to fuck the country over nine ways to sunday. Do you want to tell me that people are free to pick and choose their sources of information and that they ought to be more discriminating? Or do you want to for once look at reality. THEIR FREEDOM IS AT THE EXPENSE OF OURS.

    Be sensible Enco and use that stimulus money. Corporations do everything they can to exploit their advantages. Don’t kiss off a gift horse. It is just not intelligent.

    #36872

    Davis
    Moderator

    We have regulations and anti-trust laws and have arrived at massive corporate power that creates a shocking gap in wealth.

    Most countries have relatively weak anti-trust laws though some European countries can be very strict depending on the industry. Canada has pretty weak ones…especially when it comes to things like Banking and Telecoms where there is an effective out of control cartel. These companies extort Canadians having the highest banking fees/lowest interest rate and the highest telecom prices by far in the world…and the government does nothing about that. But even in a country with such weak anti-trust laws they are utterly strict warriors compared with the US. Canada would never have allowed Facebook, Google, Amazon, Walmart and Microsoft to have become so insanely dominant in their fields. They would have been broken up by now. And years ago in most European countries. But it all sort of feeds into the American dream. To dominate the shit out of your market, destroy most or all competition, become a multi-billionaire in no time, pay little corporate taxes to the nation that helped facilitate your wealth, be even worse in other countries and be celebrated as Gods while doing so. I heard a guy once say that the average guy didn’t support controlling or taxing these people just in case they lucked out and got to be one of these people. This is a heavy exaggeration but I think this as well as the veneration of these people has something to do with it. Monopolies are poisonous economically, politically and socially. I honestly believe the measure of a healthy democracy is not just how easy it is to get rid of a bad government or how tolerable life is for the homeless but how easy it is to manage monopolies and tax them.

    #36873

    jakelafort
    Participant

    I honestly believe the measure of a healthy democracy is not just how easy it is to get rid of a bad government or how tolerable life is for the homeless but how easy it is to manage monopolies and tax them.

    Yes sir.

    Any undue concentration of power is antithetical to the interests of the many.

    #36902

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Jake,

    The problem is not Medicare. It is capitalism. Medicare reduces the cost of health care. Charge them a ridiculous fee and they simply don’t pay it. They have a pay scale for all services. They pay 80 percent of allowable expenses. If we had one national insurer the costs would be reduced further.

    Ever since Medicare and Medicaid have been the third-party payer for health care in the U.S., health care has almost consistently gone up in price higher than the overall rate of inflation. Again, when someone else pays, the provider has no reason to hold down costs.

    Your contra examples in France and Romania are like pointing to the few cases where people die as a result of a reaction to a vaccine. Romania is not even relevant. It is a different form of government. Not sure France is either.

    Romania was and France is a single-payer, Socialized health care system.  To say they don’t count is a moving-the-goalposts, “No True Scotsman” fallacy or to becprecise a “No true single-payer, Socialized health care” fallacy.  As long as you move the goalposts, you can claim anything as unfalsifiable.

    The other point i made or was going to before i stopped is that businesses have become so powerful that they are creating/causing laws that are against the interests of the citizenry. Additionally in their freedom to compete without hindrance they are causing a de facto obstruction in the free dissemination of information. They are free to fuck the country over nine ways to sunday. Do you want to tell me that people are free to pick and choose their sources of information and that they ought to be more discriminating? Or do you want to for once look at reality. THEIR FREEDOM IS AT THE EXPENSE OF OURS.

    Are you that joker who actually wrote to The New York Times and claimed that the U.S. needed a “Reality Czar” a.k.a. The Orwellian Ministry of Truth?

    How the Biden Administation Can Help Us Solve Our Reality Crisis
    by Kevin Roose

    If so, you just contradicted your earlier, wonderful, eloquent opposition to Monarchism.  Sad.

    Now, if the Reality Czar’s “words are strong” and “they make reality,” will the Reality Czar finally “tell me what a Wang Chung is?”

    (Trigger warning: Epileptics might want to ignore the screen and just enjoy the music.)

    Given the record of previous U.S. “Czars” and their inabilty to solve problems in their professed expertise, I’m not holding out hope for a Reality Czar either.  (“Asian Carp Czar?”)

    List of U.S. Executive Branch Czars–Wikipedia
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._executive_branch_czars

    Be sensible Enco and use that stimulus money. Corporations do everything they can to exploit their advantages. Don’t kiss off a gift horse. It is just not intelligent.

    Wait, you’re putting down U.S. business and yet you want me to spend taxdollars on buying from those same businesses?   Ever hear of The Law of Non-Contradiction or Cognitive Dissonance?

     

    #36906

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Enco,

    Where can we go with this? Lets see. You are attributing the high cost of health care to medicare and medicaid. At least you have given a toot to inflation. But Ya say when someone else pays the provider has no reason to hold down costs. Private insurers pay. Those are businesses. Yet the costs are feckin ridiculous. Do you want to outlaw insurers? So much for survival of the fittest capitalism. Your ever since medicare and medicaid is a correlation not necessarily cause and effect. Ever since cigars have gotten popular such and such…

    If and when we have medicare for all we will see dramatically reduced health care. We already know that we are paying through the nose for health care compared to other nations who have socialized it. So there is that. Additionally it is just basic economics that buyers have greater purchasing power when they are bigger. Costco and Walmarts are paying the lowest. They have leverage. So will the government when they take over. If some US pharmaceutical wants to continue to hose the gov. in sale of whatever then the US can say fuck you we are going to your competitor or to Canada or England.

    Your Romania example was under Nicolae Ceaușescu who was a communist dictator so it is obviously inapposite. I don’t recall what you said about France. Regardless we have nation after nation with socialized medicine that is working better than the USA. I have not been made aware by you of how shit will be ameliorated under libertarian principles. On the contrary i can only impute disastrous results.

    You don’t have to spend it on US businesses. You can give it to someone who is in need. Don’t libertarians consider taxation confiscation? If so you get a bit back. How is that bad? Also, don’t libertarians assume everybody acts in their own interest? In any event i am not putting down US businesses. I am not looking to end capitalism. On the other hand one has to be either ignorant or an ideologue to be in love with capitalism. None us ought to have an apotheosis over any form of government. There are problems with each form.

    Governments owe a fiduciary duty to their citizens. Nothing competes with health as a need or priority. It is a fucking travesty to continue along without making the changes other nations have made.

    #36907

    The French healthcare system is very good. It is government funded and universally affordable. As an European citizen I am entitled to access it, if needed, in the same way as a French person can access Irish health services. I worked in Paris on a regular basis over an 18 month period and the French were very happy with it. My client there was an international insurance company that had a small foothold in medical insurance.

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