Are these the “birth pains” increasing with intensity?

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This topic contains 107 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  _Robert_ 5 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 108 total)
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  • #30763

    jakelafort
    Participant

    I have not read the Skeptical Inquirer in a long time. But i am not sure they debunk junk like prophecy which has so little credibility. Maybe…idk

    #30764

    michael17
    Participant

    I have not read the Skeptical Inquirer in a long time. But i am not sure they debunk junk like prophecy which has so little credibility. Maybe…idk

    I would think that they would be chomping at the bit to try and debunk the Son of God and produce millions of Atheist converts. Michael Shermer’s fancy should be aroused, former editor of Discover magazine and current editor of Skeptic

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by  michael17.
    #30769

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Michael, i have written only one letter to the editor, and it was addressed to the Skeptical Inquirer. I wrote cuz i was pissed at their absence of integrity and perhaps hypocrisy. Nature of my gripe? They have solid articles debunking paranormal, Loch Ness, Yeti, astrology and the like but the orange-eyed purple silverback gorilla of religion is off-limits. I assume they did it to avoid losing readers who would be offended by examination of religion. It has been many years since i read it so maybe it has changed.

    #30770

    Theists tend to close their ears to what Science demonstrates. It keeps giving better explanations to the natural world than any religious text or revelation ever did. It is not that Science is “offensive”, it is just that theists see any criticism of their beliefs as an attack on their faith.  They like to plead that their “sincerely held religious beliefs” that they are beyond reproach. Just like the claim that we cannot criticize Islam because it is offensive to Muslims. Wait until you meet me. It’s like saying “Oh, you can’t criticize Communism in case the Chinese get offended”.

    I do think there is too much pandering in the media to super-naturalists of all ilks in case they get upset.

    Throughout the history of scientific discovery the churches have been against almost every advance. What bothers them now is that Science has explained what religious belief really is, as demonstrated by modern psychological, Evolution, archeology, geology, etc.

    You have Rights, your beliefs do not. If you are offend by anything I say it is because you have decided to be offended. You are offended by words?? So what!

    #30771

    michael17
    Participant

    @Reg,

    Any so called Christian who says they  are offended is a thin skinned charlaron not turning the other cheek.

    1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

    4Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not [b]puffed up; 5does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, [c]thinks no evil; 6does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

    8Love never fails. But whether there areprophecies, they will fail; whether there aretongues, they will cease; whether there isknowledge, it will vanish away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is [d]perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

    11When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

    13And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

     

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by  michael17.
    #30774

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Agreed Reg, there is nothing inherently offensive to theists about science. Sometimes science is viewed as compatible with their beliefs in which case the science is trumpeted as true. And yes criticism of their beliefs is seen as an attack on their faith. To take this all the way home though it is an attack on their IDENTITY. It is where they live.

    When i have read about the long history of antisemitism, reasons given are jealousy (Jews excel in business, as professionals, writers, scientists, more educated, intelligent) and the Catholic Church having for centuries calumniated Jews in the mass..Who killed Christ? The Jews killed Christ. But the explanation is missing something fundamental. Jews rejected Christ. Christ was a Jew among Jews who pontificated but was not ultimately accepted as divine by Jews. But if his own tribe rejects him and we hold him as divine then the rejection by Jews is an affront to us. So for Christians: CHRIST IS THE SHIT! For Jews: CHRIST IS SHIT! Christian responds to Jew…I aint takin your shit, bitch!

    Christ is their identity. If you attack their identity it is the greatest affront. Same with Muslims as to Mohammed. Do not make a cartoon portraying Mohammad as a child molester unless you have a death wish. Mohammad is so intimately tied to their identity that if you question that image you have committed a personal attack.

    At the neurological level i am certain that thinking about strongly held beliefs activate different neural pathways or are in some ways demonstrably different. If we monitored Michael’s brain in an MRI when he is asked to answer criticism of prophecy v. when he contemplates quantum mechanics we would observe a change.

    So it is cults of religion and ideology ought not have an opportunity to proselytize until later in life. Our biology is just a little fucked. Bring on AI!

    #30775

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Any so called Christian….

    Aye and you are no true Scotsman…LOL.

    #30776

    Davis
    Participant

    Going insane over religious offense is by far it’s most pronounced in followers of the abrahamic religions. For that matter so is religious violence, thought control and oppression…they are also most fully realised by them. Tell ten Christians, ten Muslims and Ten Jewish people their beliefs are stupid and you would piss on their holy book and watch most of them recoil in horror, some grow aggressive and a few explode. Tell this to ten Hindus and maybe one will get pissed off while the rest will walk away. Ten bhuddists? They’ll stare at you in disbelief and then walk away confused. Tell some westernised inidginous people the same thing…they’ll tell you to grow up. It’s true that when a claim threatens your shallow fragile incredible and doubtful world view…it’s more likely you’ll over react…perhaps with violence… But I think in this case…as for so many toxic cases…the abrahamic religious are exceptionally good at it.

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by  Davis.
    #30778

    jakelafort
    Participant

    When it is tied to identity believers will go insane. Any challenge to a strongly held ideological position is a fillip. Burn a flag in front of a Trump loving red-blooded American. Tell a nazi that the fuhrer is effete. Praise Mexicans in front of a Christian Identity member. Sure Abrahamic religions do it well.

    The greater the believers identity is tied to the ideology the greater the suspension of what otherwise is considered right and wrong. Go religion. Bring on AI!

    If i were a neurologist i would love to examine the brains of the deluded.

    #30779

     

     

    Any so called Christian who says they are offended is a thin skinned charlatan not turning the other cheek.

    I think I have debated with members of most Christian sects at this point and also with those who are among the millions who each profess to have an individual “personal relationship” with Jesus. At some point, in the majority of those occasions, I have heard the line “but they are not true Christians”.  It is a fallacious argument as Robert mentioned above.

    Speaking in tongues Evangelicals say this about Catholics, Protestants say it about their various subsets and on it goes. I tend to get “Straight outa Compton Utah” Mormons call to me and the local JW leader brings his “recruits” around to impress them on how he can debate with a real live atheist. When I see them coming up the driveway I put the Book of Mormon on the coffee table and a copy of the Watchtower out for the Mormons. I then tell them that I really enjoyed reading their literature. I know I have the gift of prophecy because their reactions are always the same. They despise each other and can’t wait to tell me why the other camp is wrong.  At this point in my head I remind myself I now have ammo for the “free will” argument 🙂

    All theists say that those that believe differently are not real Christians. It is almost a mandatory statement to make. But just like quoting First Corinthians (please don’t) it means nothing to us here. It does not make or bolster any argument or statement you make. It might help to confirm your own beliefs by thinking you are sharing something important. But this too is another fallacious argument. It is an appeal to an authority that none of us consider to be authoritative.

    The amount of times Christians have thrown a tantrum upon hearing me say the words “I am an atheist” and launched into expletive laden tirades is in treble figures. This often happens at Atheist meetings (listed as being for “atheists”) at which they deliberately attend and then claim to be offended (because we don’t believe what they believe). I always tell them that I am prepared to forgive them for the use of such language and prepared to turn the other cheek. This can cause a complete meltdown. Priceless 🙂

    As an aside (to nothing in particular) I once manned an Atheist Ireland table when I noticed an elderly priest staring at me. He listened to me speak for over an hour to various members of the public, all the while with a wry smile on his face. I was hoping he would debate me. As I was packing up he said “You have a good knowledge of the Bible”. I asked him if he wished to discuss anything with me but he politely shook his head and said he had to go. I told him his secret was safe with me. He stared at me for another second or two and then smiled a little more as he walked away.

    #30783

    michael17
    Participant

    @Reg,

    1 Corinthians was displayed to show that they are not true to the scripture they claim to profess therefore they are not true Christians, condemned by what they believe in. God’s judgement has been sent to humble every religious paradigm upon the earth void of the truth. The Vicar of Christ in Rome can’t save his adherers as Italy suffers the worst death toll. This is a message from above. The most Holy time for several religions and their places of worship are empty. This is authored by God  to bring them to test in full view of the world. Not so with the true body of Christ whom they have martyred over the centuries and set in place themselves as paper tigers easily dismissed by atheist and scufflers.

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by  michael17.
    #30785

    _Robert_
    Participant

    This is a message from above

    Really? Exactly at what time and from which coordinates should we look up? Was the black death a message too? Smallpox?, HIV/AIDS? Your No True Scotsman fallacies are classic.

    #30786

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Michael, it is so cool that you read the mind of god. Lots of Christians have/do read it. I am sure your interpretation is spot on. What did the holocaust mean? What did the bubonic plague mean? What did god mean by the first world war? How about autos de fe? Inquisitions? Mass rapes? Lynchings of blacks in USA? Tsunamis? AIDS? (Were they right that god was punishing gays?)

    Is it always a punishment to make us fly right? What kind of message does he have for non-believers? How about Muslims who are so thoroughly indoctrinated and lacking in resources that they never had a chance to see the light? Does he give them messages too? What kind of message? How do you separate viruses that originate naturally from those he uses to send a message? This is all very confusing to those of us who can’t read his mind.

    #30788

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Perhaps in the next universe he will straighten the fuck out. If this is the best an all powerful creator can do then i think we ought to ask for the second team.

    He is the architect so it is all on him. If their was temptation in the garden who is to blame? How fucked up is it to make original sin a debt to be paid by future generations? Having to sacrifice his son? Wtf is wrong with your all powerful ass. That is down right primitive. In fact it is all primitive. And it takes a primitive mind or one robbed of its maturity by early indoctrination to believe a word.

    #30790

    This is a message from above.

    Does that mean that 1 billion Hindus are going to burn in Hell for more that 750 trillion centuries?  I mean they are all atheists when it comes to your God, just like the atheists on this site.

    • This reply was modified 6 months ago by  Reg the Fronkey Farmer. Reason: did not paste all of original comment
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