Call it what you will…

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This topic contains 83 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  michael17 6 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #30664

    Unseen
    Participant

    I guess many would subsume this notion under the many worlds theory/hypothesis/conjecture/etc.

    Some people believe that whatever can happen will happen.

    I saw a movie recently where this was discussed and one character quipped along the line of “If that is true, is there anything more deterministic than that?”

    #30665

    michael17
    Participant

    Quasicrystals have 5 fold symmetry. This implies a space is tiled non-periodically, thus in order for the crystal to grow it must know in priori the correct direction in which to grow. Roger Penrose first noted this in the book;The Emperors New Mind. He posited that unseen to causal space observers there is a Hibert space where all possibilities exist as a quantum mechanical cloud until a possibility collapses into event space. Thus the space is tiled in priori in event space by virtue of the only possibilities existing in Hilbert space uncollapsed.  Thus the only thing that can happen will happen.

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    #30667

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Thus the space is tiled in priori in event space by virtue of the only possibilities existing in Hilbert space uncollapsed. Thus the only thing that can happen will happen.

    That’s pretty neat.

    #30671

    Unseen
    Participant

    I guess many would subsume this notion under the many worlds theory/hypothesis/conjecture/etc. Some people believe that whatever can happen will happen. I saw a movie recently where this was discussed and one character quipped along the line of “If that is true, is there anything more deterministic than that?”

    Quasicrystals have 5 fold symmetry. This implies a space is tiled non-periodically, thus in order for the crystal to grow it must know in priori the correct direction in which to grow. Roger Penrose first noted this in the book;The Emperors New Mind. He posited that unseen to causal space observers there is a Hibert space where all possibilities exist as a quantum mechanical cloud until a possibility collapses into event space. Thus the space is tiled in priori in event space by virtue of the only possibilities existing in Hilbert space uncollapsed. Thus the only thing that can happen will happen.

    “Thus the only thing that can happen will happen.” Sounds like determinism to me.

    #30673

    From Sean Carroll:

    We can call “global determinism” the claim that, if we know the exact state of the whole universe at one time, the future and past are completely determined. But we can also define “local determinism” to be the claim that, if we know the exact state of some part of the universe at one time, the future and past of a certain region of the universe (the “domain of dependence”) is completely determined. Both are reasonable and relevant.

    But in the quantum field I am not convinced that QM can predict anything. But then I am not too familiar with the Born Rule and vector math of Hilbert space. Maybe not all spaces are Hilbert Spaces, like Phase Space.

    #30674

    Unseen
    Participant

    I wonder how chaos theory fits in.

     

    #30675

    michael17
    Participant
    Unseen wrote:

    I guess many would subsume this notion under the many worlds theory/hypothesis/conjecture/etc. Some people believe that whatever can happen will happen. I saw a movie recently where this was discussed and one character quipped along the line of “If that is true, is there anything more deterministic than that?”

    Or a biased possibility cloud. another example would be light entering  a periscope the second mirror cocked at 45 degrees  having 50% reflectivity which intuitively should allowed 50% of the light to enter your eye.. A third mirror is set behind this one cocked 45 degrees  to allow the remaining light to travel 180 degrees in the opposite direction. Instead all the light travels to your eye in the original direction it was traveling. Thus the possibility cloud is biased and counter intuitive to our casual space expectation Roger Penrose noted this result also.

    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    #30676

    _Robert_
    Participant

    When he says “exact state… at one time” I don’t understand what “one time” means. Since time is continuous, “one time” can be (or needs be) infinitesimally small. Therefore there is no such thing as “the state of the whole universe”. A discrete sample does not necessarily represent reality.

    #30682

    michael17
    Participant

    When he says “exact state… at one time” I don’t understand what “one time” means. Since time is continuous, “one time” can be (or needs be) infinitesimally small. Therefore there is no such thing as “the state of the whole universe”. A discrete sample does not necessarily represent reality.

     

    This is true modeling nonlinear systems like the weather, everything is determined by initial conditions to get a certain outcome a million years in the future.

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    #30687

    Michael – after all this time we might be on similar wavelengths assuming you are happy to express the probability of that as a wave function.

     

    #30688

    michael17
    Participant
    Unseen wrote:

    I wonder how chaos theory fits in.

    I have an unpublished paper that was submitted to the Journal; physical review A, that combines chaos and QM. In one section I used a recursive transform typically used to generate Julia sets (similar to the famous Mandelbrot set to generated the 2p orbital shell around a hydrogen atom using the Bohm model and not the Heisenberg model which is more advanced.

    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    #30699

    michael17
    Participant

    Michael – after all this time we might be on similar wavelengths assuming you are happy to express the probability of that as a wave function

    A Hilbert space can use linear algebra with imaginary terms (in the mathematical sense) yet with these terms being wave functions. I do this precisely in my 2p orbital shell model.

    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    #30701

    My only reply to that is -1,0,+1

    #30703

    michael17
    Participant
    Unseen wrote:

    I wonder how chaos theory fits in.

    I have an unpublished paper that was submitted to the Journal; physical review A, that combines chaos and QM. In one section I used a recursive transform typically used to generate Julia sets (similar to the famous Mandelbrot set to generated the 2p orbital shell around a hydrogen atom using the Bohm model and not the Heisenberg model which is more advanced.

    A contribution to Chaos theory which I want to advance is that similar to a vector space is comprised of a set of orthogonal vectors. A mathematical construct to model an order of indeterminate  tiling systems consists of a set of orthogonal vector spaces. I prove this out with a class of aperiodic tiling called trinominos in the mathematical journals it essentially a tee shape form by 3 blocks. The system is indeterminate and chaotic. I wanted to see if such a framework, can also incorporate a Hilbert space and model Penrose  5 fold tilings which are essentially 2 dimensional quasicrystals.

    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  michael17.
    #30710

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    I have an unpublished paper that was submitted to the Journal; physical review A, that combines chaos and QM. In one section I used a recursive transform typically used to generate Julia sets (similar to the famous Mandelbrot set to generated the 2p orbital shell around a hydrogen atom using the Bohm model and not the Heisenberg model which is more advanced.

    If you’re willing to accept me as a peer, we can publish this. Just don’t expect me to understand it. 🙂

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