#MeToo Must Start Making Distinctions

Homepage Forums Small Talk #MeToo Must Start Making Distinctions

This topic contains 106 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  Simon Paynton 10 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 107 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #9415

    Unseen
    Participant

    It sounds like you’re saying that if women find powerful males attractive, they’ve only got themselves to blame if they get slapped around.

    What if a guy with money finds himself attracted only to women who schmooz and play up to him? They don’t have only themselves to blame? I blame them.

    #9416

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Nobody’s saying that women are attracted to violent out-of-control men.

    #9417

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    @unseen – “What if a guy with money finds himself attracted only to women who schmooz and play up to him? They don’t have only themselves to blame? I blame them.

    – what if Paris only finds itself attracted to Isis terrorists?  I think your analogy doesn’t work.

    @robert – “the mental torture, manipulation, and provocation. Just a mean son of a bitch hitting an innocent woman? Bullshit….It is a simpleton’s position.

    – are you saying that abused women ask for it?  A man is unlikely to be prosecuted, and a woman to end up in a battered women’s refuge, over one incident.

    #9418

    Unseen
    Participant

    “Seems” is a weasel word

    “Destroy the lives of all offenders” is hyerbole

    It reeks of straw man misrepresentation of #MeToo motive

    “Seems” isn’t a weasel word so much as a way flag what you’re saying is an opinion. “Destroy the lives of all offenders” seems (that word again) to be the de facto result of the general thoughtless failure to make distinctions. I don’t get the straw man reference since depicting #MeToo as failing to make distinctions between degrees of offense is simply true.

     

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  PopeBeanie. Reason: I took last paragraph out of the block quote
    #9419

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    What part of “groping strange women” isn’t quite bad?

    #9422

    Unseen
    Participant

    What part of “groping strange women” isn’t quite bad?

    I searched all four pages and your use of the word “groping” is the only one. Yet you seem to think you are quoting someone since you put that phrase in quotes.

    Explain, please. It may become a strawman once we know who you mistakenly think you are quoting.

    #9424

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I’m not quoting, I’m paraphrasing.  I put that in quotes because it’s the way the expression works, like we say “what part of ‘no’ don’t you understand?”

    Isn’t Morgan Freeman accused of groping random women?  For example.  I agree that his offences seem to be on the mild part of the spectrum, but the whole spectrum of unwanted attention is unacceptable.

    #9425

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    “Seems” isn’t a weasel word so much as a way flag what you’re saying is an opinion.

    Ok, if it’s only an opinion.

    “Destroy the lives of all offenders” seems (that word again) to be the de facto result of the general thoughtless failure to make distinctions.

    “General thoughtless failure” is another opinion-based declaration, which conveniently disregards when #MeToo claims are valid. I’ll still grant you that some #MeToo claims are bound to be invalid.

    I don’t get the straw man reference since depicting #MeToo as failing to make distinctions between degrees of offense is simply true.

    Ok, but you’re still choosing to discount the validity in general of #MeToo claims by default.

    If you continue to discount #MeToo claims in general, I’ll have to dig up some hospital statistics wrt male vs female abuse and its severity, which are much less just matters of opinion. (Unless you say that valid claims of abuse are irrelevant to your point after all.)

    #9426

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    Women in general select men on their potential to succeed in violence. Tall men, muscles, big shoulders, etc.. They find that attractive…firemen you know that whole bit. Woman always go for taller, stronger men. Goes back to prehistoric times. Nice flabby momma’s boys not so much.

    There’s probably some validity to that that I hadn’t considered until now. Still, I think #MeToo is generally empowering for both sexes wrt overcoming natural evolution’s lack of foresight in that regard. When modern human families are isolated from (what used to be naturally common) social scrutiny and societal peer pressure in their unnaturally private apartments and homes, bad behavior is much less regulated than during those ancient times when characteristics like aggression and sexual selection were genetically evolving.

    I.e., I’m saying (again, paraphrased) that a bit of over-compensation in the direction of empowering both males and females to be more intolerant of physical abuse is a good thing for the future of our species. It doesn’t bother me if you call that sexism.

    #9427

    _Robert_
    Participant

    @unseen – “What if a guy with money finds himself attracted only to women who schmooz and play up to him? They don’t have only themselves to blame? I blame them.” – what if Paris only finds itself attracted to Isis terrorists? I think your analogy doesn’t work. @robert – “the mental torture, manipulation, and provocation. Just a mean son of a bitch hitting an innocent woman? Bullshit….It is a simpleton’s position.” – are you saying that abused women ask for it? A man is unlikely to be prosecuted, and a woman to end up in a battered women’s refuge, over one incident.

    Good question. Is she asking for it? Well yes, why not? She has the legal advantage. If the cops show up, HE is going to jail. Doesn’t matter who struck first or even what happened at all. As the laws now favor women, more and more men are just gonna go their own way. Women will be replaced by sex bots and they can fix their own cars and toilets. It’s already happening.

    #9428

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Robert, which laws favor women?

    In what way do those laws favor women?

    #9429

    _Robert_
    Participant

    My divorced male friends all lost their custody battles. One guy tried for 7 years to get his kids away from his drunk ex-wife. He spent hundreds of thousands to no avail. Most of the stats I saw snooping around show the mother receiving primary custody around 80 percent if the time.

    When I was divorced, I made 6% more than my wife who is an architect. She received about 65% of the common property plus a 3 year alimony payment and half my pension. My lawyer told me “just settle fast, you will never do better than that deal, that’s just the way it is in this court”. I found a new lawyer, she said the same thing.

    I also had a male coworker, He was a very little guy, about 5 two. He and his wife drank a lot and got in fights all the time. She was way heavier and would kick the crap out of him. I saw her get mad and throw him in the pool once at a party. We all thought it was funny at the time. The cops never arrested her. They arrested him every time. He was embarrassed about it, but he told me she always got violent first. I believe him.

    I think the whole family law business assumes male is guilty and the female is a victim and does what it does day in and day out and men are figuring out it’s better to avoid it. Young males see what happened to their fathers.

    #9430

    jakelafort
    Participant

    You are using anecdotes for the most part.

    How about prostitution laws?  Women are getting arrested far more often than men.

    How about abortion laws.  Sure if it is a contest between the father and mother…dad says have the kid and mom says no the mom is gonna prevail unless there is a violation of an abortion law.  But there has been a  tendency since Roe v Wade to erode women’s right to abortion.  I can’t imagine the law would be so controlling if the baby producers were men.

    I practiced law for fifteen years  and did some family law which utterly sucked.  Seems to me that best interest of child is something most judges are following with a bias in favor of mom getting custody.  All things being equal it is less likely a man will receive an award of alimony from his wife. Property settlements are usually fair.  Women sometimes get hosed cuz they can’t afford a lawyer and the husband can.

    So yeah there is a residue of paternalistic protection of women. It is a result of men viewing and treating women as subordinate. No surprise and consistent with unjust social hierarchy,  historically women have been at a disadvantage.  Primogeniture favored male heirs.  Women got raped and men raped with impunity.  No vote.  Disadvantages in inheritance laws. etc.  So if in some instances the tides have turned and women have some advantages it is turnabout.

    #9431

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Jake,

    Anecdotes are real world experiences and it’s what I see and know to be true around here. I certainly would not trust the stats of anyone with an agenda.

    Prostitution is a business deal; I can’t care less about who gets arrested. It’s men who get caught in stings all the time anyways. And they get to be in the newspaper.

    Woman have sexual power. Why is that never discussed? They use what they have to get what they want. Shouldn’t men complain about that? Is that fair? Then women feel shitty because they didn’t use their brains or personality like men have to. Old man Morgan Freeman makes a remark about her short skirt…..tough shit. You can’t have it both ways. Are you telling me the victims don’t know the effect they have on men…? All of a sudden women are just plain stupid? It’s been that way for 1000’s of years.

    Clearly there were and still are inequities against women, and rape is a real and present crime. But we don’t not have a “rape culture” and impossible quotas and extreme PCness just drives smart people away.

     

    #9432

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Anecdotes are or tend to be less reliable because the sample size is insufficient and because anecdotes may reflect bias.  Sure, stats that are produced to further an agenda are inherently unreliable.

    Yes, a business deal in which government seeks to control women who have fewer job options than men and or lower pay for comparable work and even then have to deal with sexual shit too often.  You, not caring about who gets arrested is arbitrary. You feel the injustice of men getting hosed in family cases and yet you don’t care who gets arrested?

    You say women have sexual power?  Sometimes.  Other times it is the only way they can proceed to get what they need and fulfill what men want.  Men should not complain when they are the ones exploiting the women….that is for sure.  Sometimes men use brains and personality but other times they use their connections.  Sometimes men are pricks and other times women are cunts.  But in general women have a tougher go of things, at least in my estimation.

    Do we have a rape culture?  Idk…maybe.  So many women are molested and raped..men too. I remember reading about how in precolonial  North America (author McCabe i think) native women were raped so very frequently and it was known and men were not prosecuted for doing so.  That is a rape culture.  And if stats are to be believed muslims are raping women with alarming frequency and it is due to their sick ideology.  That is a rape culture.  Not sure how to characterize USA where perhaps a tacit shaming of women who report how they have been violated discourages prosecution…idk

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 107 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.