Sunday School

Sunday School 27th June 2021

This topic contains 42 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  jakelafort 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 13 posts - 31 through 43 (of 43 total)
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  • #38189

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Autumn,

    The ‘school’ part wasn’t the problem. I did K-13 at public school in Ontario, and they managed to get me through my whole education without abducting me from my parents, forcibly eradicating my culture, indoctrinating me into a religion, raping me, physically abusing me, running scientific experiments on me, putting me into forced labour, denying me basic standards of care, or other wise killing me. I even learned to read and write along the way, which was nifty.

    If Canada has compulsory attendance laws for non-Indigenous children as well as Indigenous, the fact that none of that happened to you is strictly the coincidental whims of the State.  Such things, however, happen to children both Indigenous and otherwise everywhere there are compulsory attendance laws.   Mere disobedience of compulsory attendance laws means children can be abducted from parents and all parental custody rights dissolved.  Corporal punishment, indoctrination, bullying, surveillance, psychoactive drugging for “ADD/ADHD/Hyperactivity” and untold other abuses took place in the past and still take place today because children are captive audiences in government-approved schools.

    In the United States, the first proponents of compulsory school attendance were the Puritans of Massachusetts in 1642.  They proposed this explicitly for purposes of religious indoctrination.  They were preceded in Germany by Martin Luther, who proposed compulsory school attendance as part of his “War with the Devil” i.e. his rivals in The Roman Catholic Church and the Jews.  The Prussians expanded the idea even further in indoctrinating nationalist idolatry which other nations adopted by example.

    The earlist recorded ideas of compulsory school attendance came from Plato’s totalitarian Utopia The Republic. 

    All the examples of compulsory school attendance throughout history should send chills down any frethinking person’s spine to think that it is still a practice upheld to this day.

    #38190

    Autumn
    Participant

    If Canada has compulsory attendance laws for non-Indigenous children as well as Indigenous, the fact that none of that happened to you is strictly the coincidental whims of the State.

    Incorrect.

    i) My parents had the right to decide where I went to school as well as whether or not I was home-schooled, or went to public, private, or a separate school board (e.g. Catholic school, but let’s not open that can of worms at the moment).

    ii) Those abuses were part of a plan to systemically eliminate indigenous culture and peoples. By the time I was born, none of those things would have been legal to do to someone of my heritage. Some of them never would have been. Some of them were not legal to do to indigenous children either, but with so little oversight or actual interest in their welfare, how were kids isolated from their parents supposed to fight back?

    #38191

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Reg,

    The funny story from The Onion is actually a refutation of “Critical Race Theory.”  Not all problems come down to “race.”  Some problems are caused by individual psychopharmacology. 🧉🍸🍷🍻🍹🍾

    #38192

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Autumn,

    i) My parents had the right to decide where I went to school as well as whether or not I was home-schooled, or went to public, private, or a separate school board (e.g. Catholic school, but let’s not open that can of worms at the moment).

    Under compulsory attendance laws, your parents only had the privilege to decide where you would go.  If the State didn’t approve of your parent’s choice, they could just as easily send you to a Residential School as they could an Indigenous child.  And if a State changed regimes, it could exercise that power against yet another despised group.

    There is no nice way of coercively brainwashing people and anyone can become the victim as long as the State is allowed that power.  The real solution for the horrors of the Indigenous Residential Schools is for citizens to take away the State’s power to establish such schools, take away the State’s power to compel their attendance and let parent and child find the best path for education.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Addendum for clarification
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling. No State compelled me to correct that
    #38195

    Autumn
    Participant

    Autumn,

    i) My parents had the right to decide where I went to school as well as whether or not I was home-schooled, or went to public, private, or a separate school board (e.g. Catholic school, but let’s not open that can of worms at the moment).

    Under compulsory attendance laws, your parents only had the privilege to decide where you would go. If the State didn’t approve of your parent’s choice, they could just as easily send you to a Residential School as they could an Indigenous child.

    The state doesn’t hold that authority. Provincial education acts also define the requirements of parents for enrolment, so congrats on being wrong in two ways, I guess?

    I know you have a bug up your ass about the state. But Canada isn’t your middle school sociology paper. It’s, like, a whole nation with existing laws and a constitution and everything. Provincial laws do require people of a certain age to be enrolled in a public school or an equivalent alternative provided they aren’t other wise exempted, but that’s it. The law doesn’t provide other tools for the state to determine where your children must live. The closest thing would be child welfare and protection acts, which aren’t relevant to this situation, and again, the state’s powers are limited to ensuring there is a suitable legal guardian or custodian. The state isn’t granted the authority to determine you children must go to a specific place.

    #38196

    Davis
    Moderator

    I do not know of a single English speaking country that doesn’t allow home schooling Enco meaning none of them have compulsory attendance laws as you are implying. In fact only one single Western country places limits on homeschooling (and even then not entirely). Are you just against mandatory schooling (even if it is homeschooling or private)? Or against a minimum curriculum? What are you arguing against?

    I sometimes get the impression Enco that you would prefer to live in a libertarian paradise (you need only look at the few experiments where this has happened to see what a failure they were).

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  Davis.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  Davis.
    #38199

    Autumn
    Participant

    Yeah. Compulsory enrolment and attendance often breaks down closer to this:

    It creates a responsibility for the state to make sure education resources are available.

    It creates a responsibility for parents, guardians, and custodians to ensure their children receive an education of a minimal standard.

    It creates an entitlement of children and youth to receive an education (though one might also posit it’s an obligation under the well established argumentum ad I-didn’t-choose-to-be-bornum).

    It doesn’t create a right of the state to arbitrarily take children or to hold the decision-making power customarily held by parents, guardians, or custodians, or by the children and youths themselves.

    In the case of the Residential Schools programs, that was a fundamentally different scenario. The Indigenous nations and peoples were subjected to the Indian Act—a codification of super racist ideologies, policies, and institutions that never recognized the independence and the autonomy of First Peoples in the first place.

    #38200

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Autumn do you have a recommendation-a book that covers the treatment of first peoples in Canada?

    #38201

    Autumn
    Participant

    I’m not that well read on it. I just picked up two books recently by Indigenous authors.

    21 Things You May Not Know About the Indian Act by Bob Joseph

    and

    Price Paid: The Fight for First Nations Survival by Bev Sellars

    I’ve started on the first book just yesterday, but am not far in yet.

    There is also a free online course from the University of Alberta on coursera. I wanted to do it last month, but a contract came up and I needed the work. Fortunately this month I have time.

    https://www.coursera.org/learn/indigenous-canada

    #38202

    Davis
    Moderator

    While not a systematic study I can recommend Farley Mowat’s “People of the Deer”. He spent considerable time with Inuit Canadians as their lives were slowly being interrupted by Canadian interventionism, economic exploitation and general indifference. It is a very beautiful, emotional and tragic read.

    #38203

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Damn Godless savages….they scared us with their ghost dance.

    #38204

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Davis,

    Or we could just let Facebook go the way of MySpace, Friendster, Microsoft, NetScape, AOL, CompuServe, Prodigy, and every other “New, New Thing” that everyone claimed was a monopoly that was out to take over the world.

     

    #38206

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Autumn & Davis thanks.

    I’ve to this point read zero about Canadian first people. Just tangentially in the 1870’s a few tribes crossed the border into Canada and books about voyageurs. Man i wish there were something exposing the hidden history in Canada-imagination is ignited by those horrifying discoveries.

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