Sunday School

Sunday School 3rd January 2021

This topic contains 71 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  TheEncogitationer 3 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 72 total)
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  • #35813

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Simon,

    Valerie Solanos?  Now there’s a life without a purpose, as evidenced by her destruction of another life Andy Worhol.  Now what’s all this talk show falderal about women and E.Q.?

    #35814

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Reg, Drega, Davis, Simon, Kristina, Unseen, Robert, and Fellow Unbelievers,

    Sorry it’s been so long!  I hope everyone had Happy Holidays of Christmas, Chanukkah, Winter Solstice, Boxing Day, F3stivus  For The Rest of Us, and  a Happy New  Year!

    Regarding the issue of Nihilism, I say if a person derives their sense of right and wrong, purpose, and meaning from a God that does not exist and logically cannot exist, then that person is a Nihilist.  (“Nihil” being the Latin word for “Nothing.”)

    Not only can a person derive morality, ethics, purpose, and meaning without a God, but it is absolutely necessary to do so without a God.

    Fyodor Dostoevsky once held that without God, everything is permitted.  Yet The Holy Bible states that “With God, all things are possible.”  Presumably, this includes the possibility that all things are permitted.

    Of course, The Holy Bible also states in contradiction that God cannot defeat iron chariots and cannot lie.  Either way you read things, The Holy Bible, the God mentioned in it, and Dostoevsky’s rendering of Theism all give no coherant guidance whatsoever on morality, ethics, purpose, or meaning.

    Indeed, everything, no matter how cruel, inhuman, and atrocious  has been permitted in the name of God and holy books referring to and ascribed to him.  So Theism and Abrahamic Religion in particular has nothing credible to say against Nihilism.

    See The Skeptics Annotated Bible here:

    Can God Do Anything?

    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/cando.html

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spacing and agreement of subject and verb
    #35816

    Davis
    Moderator

    With the best will in the world, a lot of people have trouble finding meaning in life.

    Then that person is overly corrupted by religion, has not utilised the resources available to them as best as possible, needs help with a humanist friend and/or requires some assistance from a cognitive therapist.

    #35818

    Davis
    Moderator

    Yes! Autocorrect

    #35819

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Davis,

    I know, right?  Autocorrect is a pain.  I turned mine off.  I like my errors to be my responsibility, which I guess ties in with the Existentialist sub-thread.

    One good thing: Unlike Facebook, at least this Forum allows eggplants.  No post about Bill Clinton and the-angle-of-his-dangle would be complete without an eggplant. 🍆😁

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Addendum
    #35821

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Reg,

    Some other thoughts about this really good Sunday School:

     

    LDS Scouting Abuse:  And to think the Mormons regard themselves as so superior to The Whore of Babylon Mother Church!  Parents, just get your kids books on scouting-type skills and form your own loose-knit troop with friends and keep kids the Hell away from houses of worship!

    Tattoos: While I don’t think they are a “sin” and while consenting adults have the right to do with their bodies as they wish, for myself, if I’m going to decorate my body, I’d rather use something that lets me switch up the decoration.  Some examples include Henna-based Mehndi craft, Sharpie Tattoo Pens, temporary tattoo printer media, or pre-made temporary tattoos you find in boxes of Cracker Jack.  Decoration without pain, permanent marks, scars, metallic inks, or risk of disease is real freedom!

    Red China’s Concentration Camps:  Red China is doing Counter-Jihad all wrong!  Yes, hunt down Al-Qaeda, Boko Haram, and ISIS to the ends of the Earth, but when it comes to Muslim civilians, the way to go is not dehumanization, but treating them like the human beings that Islam does not!

    Tell them that they have more dignity than Mullahs who call on them to face Mecca with their asses in the air 5 times daily.

    Tell the women that they don’t have to risk heatstroke in the Summertime by wearing black headscarves and circus-tents.  Welcome them to remove their headscarves and let them know in earnest that you won’t tell a soul.

    Let the children know there is more to life than strapping on dynamite vests and vaporizing the <i>Kuffir. </i>

    ‘Course, this means that China would have to offer free thoughts and free markets to lure people away from living and dying for Allah, which is to say, China will have to give up being Red.

     

     

    #35822

    Unseen
    Participant

    I’m remembering suicide’s role in existentialism as the ultimate guarantor of freedom. In Sartre’s existentialism, the human being is always responsible and is thus in the embrace of what he calls “dreadful freedom.” It’s a freedom you often don’t want. You are forced to make unpleasant dilemma-ridden decisions with no particular upside.

    But you possess a trump card. There is always one thing you can do to exercise ultimate freedom: You can kill yourself.

    #35823

    Davis
    Moderator

    People from most non-Abrahamic religion influenced parts of the world have a different attitude towards suicide or euthanasia. Very few cultures actually endorse it but they have a far less aggressive resistance towards it or even grudging acceptance of it in some cases. Barring bad quick decisions, mental problems (including depression) or other inability to make an informed decision and the thorny issue of having children dependent on you, I fully support anybody’s choice to end their own life and beyond rationalising and working things out with someone after a reasonable interval I wouldn’t try to change someone’s mind. After all I believe freedom and human dignity is meaningless if you do not give someone a choice over all aspects of their own life. Indeed the existentialists were right in that suicide is the ultimate act of asserting human will and confronting the absurdity of humans forced to choose. And they wrote their works at a time when the West was only so lightly secularised and they were fighting centuries of Abrahamic “all life is precious no matter what” nonsense.

    #35824

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Not only can a person derive morality, ethics, purpose, and meaning without a God, but it is absolutely necessary to do so without a God.

    I agree, but it’s true that atheists have to work harder than religious people, to derive these things.

    Dostoevsky’s rendering of Theism all give no coherant guidance whatsoever on morality, ethics, purpose, or meaning.

    But for the theist, all of these things are coherent: it’s “what God wants”.  However, I find that beyond this – it’s confusing for anyone to try and follow closely.  People have to wing it or interpret things loosely in order to stay coherent: skate over the incoherence, otherwise they may end up in trouble.

    Also, there’s various “darkness” built into religion in the form of possible punitive aggressive moral anger, resulting in things like witch-burning and Trumpism.

    #35825

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Then that person is overly corrupted by religion, has not utilised the resources available to them as best as possible, needs help with a humanist friend and/or requires some assistance from a cognitive therapist.

    I don’t know.  It’s so easy for young men, who are not married with children, to become doomers.

    #35826

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    But you possess a trump card. There is always one thing you can do to exercise ultimate freedom: You can kill yourself.

    I disagree philosophically with this position.  I think suicide is to be avoided at all costs.  On the other hand, I know it’s almost impossible to stand in someone’s way if they’re determined to do it.  Most of the time people aren’t in their right minds and would be grateful afterwards for being rescued.

    #35827

    _Robert_
    Participant

    But you possess a trump card. There is always one thing you can do to exercise ultimate freedom: You can kill yourself.

    I do think this is a factor in the anti gun-control fight for many Americans…

    Claiming the lives of 23,000 Americans every year, including 1,100 children and teens, firearm suicide is a significant public health crisis in the US. Nearly two-thirds of all gun deaths in the US are suicides, resulting in an average of 63 deaths a day.

    https://everytownresearch.org/report/firearm-suicide-in-the-united-states/

     

    #35828

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I do think this is a factor in the anti gun-control fight for many Americans…

    This is one of the problems with widespread gun ownership – it makes suicide easy.  Suicide is normally difficult – it’s hard to find a sure-fire way to kill yourself.  This is what saves the majority of would-be suicides in my opinion.

    #35829

    Davis
    Moderator

    In fact apart from jumping off a very high platform there is a sure fire painless way involving the combination of a couple pills which actually aren’t super difficult to procure. This information can be found in the book “The peaceful pill” which can be ordered in most countries online. If society could have a more direct and honest discussion about suicide instead of the Abrahamic led “do everything possible to never let it happen” then you would have a lot less grizzly gun related suicides (or terribly botched sleeping pill suicides or slicing open wrists) and the awful fall out. That includes people being traumatised when discovering brains splattered all over the room, serious damage to the body with unsuccessful suicides (especially by gun or on train tracks) and people dying in painful and/or uncertain conditions.

    But yes, you are right, impulsive easy suicides is one of the MANY absurd and ridiculous side effects of an armed society.

    #35830

    Unseen
    Participant

    I disagree philosophically with this position.  I think suicide is to be avoided at all costs.

    “Thinking” suicide is to be avoided at all costs is only a philosophical position when you offer an argument for it.

    You haven’t.

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