Sunday School

Sunday School 3rd January 2021

This topic contains 71 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  TheEncogitationer 3 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 72 total)
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  • #35831

    Unseen
    Participant

    I disagree philosophically with this position.  I think suicide is to be avoided at all costs.

    “Thinking” suicide is to be avoided at all costs is only a philosophical position when you offer an argument for it.

    You haven’t.

    #35832

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    “Thinking” suicide is to be avoided at all costs is only a philosophical position when you offer an argument for it.

    Biological pressure to thrive and survive.

    #35833

    Unseen
    Participant

    But you possess a trump card. There is always one thing you can do to exercise ultimate freedom: You can kill yourself.

    I do think this is a factor in the anti gun-control fight for many Americans…

    Claiming the lives of 23,000 Americans every year, including 1,100 children and teens, firearm suicide is a significant public health crisis in the US. Nearly two-thirds of all gun deaths in the US are suicides, resulting in an average of 63 deaths a day.

    https://everytownresearch.org/report/firearm-suicide-in-the-united-states/

    Where is your evidence? All I ever hear from the pro-gun folks is self-defense, fending off home invaders, and breaking up robberies.

    In other words, it’s always about killing other people.

    #35834

    Unseen
    Participant

    But you possess a trump card. There is always one thing you can do to exercise ultimate freedom: You can kill yourself.

    I do think this is a factor in the anti gun-control fight for many Americans…

    Claiming the lives of 23,000 Americans every year, including 1,100 children and teens, firearm suicide is a significant public health crisis in the US. Nearly two-thirds of all gun deaths in the US are suicides, resulting in an average of 63 deaths a day.

    https://everytownresearch.org/report/firearm-suicide-in-the-united-states/

    Where is your evidence? All I ever hear from the pro-gun folks is self-defense, fending off home invaders, and breaking up robberies.

    In other words, it’s always about killing other people.

    #35835

    Unseen
    Participant

    In fact apart from jumping off a very high platform there is a sure fire painless way involving the combination of a couple pills which actually aren’t super difficult to procure.

    Insulin R (the one you’d want) is $25/vial at Walmart and a box of syringes costs about the same (you can’t buy just one), no prescription required. Half a vial should be more than enough to result in total unconsciousness and a pain-free death, but just keep injecting until the vial is empty or you are gone.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  Unseen.
    #35837

    Unseen
    Participant

    “Thinking” suicide is to be avoided at all costs is only a philosophical position when you offer an argument for it.

    Biological pressure to thrive and survive.

    Biological pressure doesn’t come to bear on individuals, only on species. Social pressure is what people respond to, and if someone commits suicide, obviously the social pressure not to do it was insufficient to prevent it.

    #35838

    Davis
    Moderator

    Indeed insulin is recommended as a suicide method not because it is the most efficient without any possible side effects (there can be minor unpleasantness) but mostly because of how easy it is to procure. However it’s important to truly overdose as a not strong enough dose can definitely lead to unpleasantness. Most internet searches just lead to “suicide help lines” which for the most part is a great idea because many people who are suicidal do need immediate assistance. Having said that the lack of useful and clear information is a serious problem as it leads to all sorts of misery and terrible botched suicides. Not being able to clearly discuss and dispense reliable information is a left-over from Abrahamic puritanical views about the sinfulness of ending your life before God decides. The country is New Zealand is so threatened by the Peaceful Pill Handbook that they have banned it. In fact it isn’t that cheap to purchase their books because they need to have a large legal fund for lawsuits and challenges to the right for the book to even exist.

    #35839

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Biological pressure doesn’t come to bear on individuals, only on species.

    Each individual experiences an internal pressure to survive and thrive.

    #35840

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Each individual organism carries physical DNA molecules.  Within the population of the species, there are multiple versions of genes (or gene sequences).  Because the number of carrier organisms is limited by physical resources, then if any one version of a gene is to stay numerous, it has to somehow compete against the other versions.  The numerousness of the other versions is another limiting factor on each.  If they all compete, then there is competition to reproduce and survive among carrier organisms.  Hence, individual, internal pressure to survive and thrive in each organism.

    #35841

    _Robert_
    Participant

    But you possess a trump card. There is always one thing you can do to exercise ultimate freedom: You can kill yourself.

    I do think this is a factor in the anti gun-control fight for many Americans…

    Claiming the lives of 23,000 Americans every year, including 1,100 children and teens, firearm suicide is a significant public health crisis in the US. Nearly two-thirds of all gun deaths in the US are suicides, resulting in an average of 63 deaths a day.

    https://everytownresearch.org/report/firearm-suicide-in-the-united-states/

    Where is your evidence? All I ever hear from the pro-gun folks is self-defense, fending off home invaders, and breaking up robberies. In other words, it’s always about killing other people.

    Since more people die from gun suicide than gun homicide then obviously it is on people’s minds. A fast way out right there in the sock drawer. You really think pro gun types would ever admit to this? I have had several experiences when some dude brings out a gun to show it off and then says something akin to “here is my long term health plan”.

    #35842

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Biological pressure doesn’t come to bear on individuals, only on species.

    Each individual experiences an internal pressure to survive and thrive.

    People have a pressure to get laid and replicate but many people feel no pressure to thrive.,,,many just feel pressure to escape reality.

    #35843

    Davis
    Moderator

    People have a pressure to get laid and replicate but many people feel no pressure to thrive.,,,many just feel pressure to escape reality.

    One of the best responses to the “thriving” myth. The pressure is the continued replication of our genes (not even necessarily our own genes). Nature doesn’t even care about our own survival noting the number of species which die soon after procreation. Nor does nature give the slightest toss about “thriving” but again just replication. The human concept of “thriving” is a byproduct of societies which have managed to gain a surplus of time after gaining some semblance of collective safety and nourishment. Until that point “thriving” was not part of any equation anywhere on planet Earth. Just life replicating genes and ensuring genes continued replicating (which does not even necessarily depend on you procreating or surviving or so called “flourishing”). This is obvious considering the number of species where many males never procreate and even some females don’t…instead contributing to the safety of the herd or helping raise (or ensure the survival to adulthood) of relatives. It is all a concept conceived of in the human mind that has little to do with nature as observed.

    #35846

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I’d say there is a “spectrum” of replicating, and surviving in order to replicate, and thriving in order to survive.  Each is separate in some ways, and together in other ways.

    #35847

    Unseen
    Participant

    Biological pressure doesn’t come to bear on individuals, only on species.

    Each individual experiences an internal pressure to survive and thrive.

    Biological pressure doesn’t come to bear on individuals, only on species.

    Each individual experiences an internal pressure to survive and thrive.

    Unless, of course, he decides some other pressure compels him to kill himself.

    I think what we have here is an instance of The Incredible Shrining Hypothesis.

    #35848

    Unseen
    Participant

    But you possess a trump card. There is always one thing you can do to exercise ultimate freedom: You can kill yourself.

    I do think this is a factor in the anti gun-control fight for many Americans…

    Claiming the lives of 23,000 Americans every year, including 1,100 children and teens, firearm suicide is a significant public health crisis in the US. Nearly two-thirds of all gun deaths in the US are suicides, resulting in an average of 63 deaths a day.

    https://everytownresearch.org/report/firearm-suicide-in-the-united-states/

    Where is your evidence? All I ever hear from the pro-gun folks is self-defense, fending off home invaders, and breaking up robberies. In other words, it’s always about killing other people.

    Since more people die from gun suicide than gun homicide then obviously it is on people’s minds. A fast way out right there in the sock drawer. You really think pro gun types would ever admit to this? I have had several experiences when some dude brings out a gun to show it off and then says something akin to “here is my long term health plan”.

    The quip “here is my long term health plan” can be understood in various ways, one of them being “In case I get confronted by some hostile punk with a knife, my gun can keep me healthy and alive,” which would be the opposite of suicide.

    I don’t know why, unless someone is buying a gun specifically to carry out a suicide, being able to commit suicide would be one of the reasons to get one, given the many other ways of offing oneself which are less messy, for one thing, and less likely to be botched. I think I have mentioned insulin as a very easy and effective way to simply turn out the lights.

    No, I think most gun suicides are impulsive, whereas to do oneself in with opioids or insulin requires at least a modicum of planning and preparation.

    And if you want it to look like an accident to ensure your survivors can collect insurance, driving into a bride abutment at 80+ mph is the way to go because you could have just fallen asleep at the wheel.

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