Sunday School

[Simon Paynton]

I can’t help thinking that Peter Singer has made a massive error in his work.  Now all he’s known for is a philosophy of “gas the disabled”.

Should he say the unsayable, that he thinks that extremely ill babies should be euthenised?  Should he have said “I don’t know, it’s a dilemma”?  Is it cowardly, not to get involved in a toxic debate, because to do so is to get all covered in toxic waste?  Or is it wise, not to let the toxic people get their toxic hands on us?

The fact is, I suspect his credentials in two ways.

1, his philosophy has giant holes in it and seems unsatisfactory in some ways.  For example, his conception of “personhood” seems to be based on the Latin definition of the word “person”.

2, he really seems to be a prosocial psychopath, without normal human feelings.  If this is true, it’s not surprising that he’s known for being heartless.

Jordan Peterson has been controversial, because he took on the silly Left.  But he never said anything unforgiveable by normal human beings.  Either Peter Singer is daft as a brush, or he’s very brave, or he really doesn’t see a problem with the things he’s known for.

Whatever the situation, I think that people who shut him down are cry-bullies.  Philosophy should be debated, if only for the sake of showing that professional philosophers may not be any more correct than the rest of us.

I believe his argument is based on quality of life.  Those without quality of life are a burden to themselves and others.  But I think this argument is weak, for the reason that all human lives should be valued, otherwise we’re all in trouble.

[Davis]

Jordan Peterson has said all sorts of homophobic bullshit and really vile sexist things that are unforgivable.

His “taking on the silly left” are usually cases full of strawmen, cherry picking, heavy generalising and extremely well edited videos. For instance he only shows YouTube videos where their opponent doesn’t know how to respond (sometimes because the question is phrased in an unusual way) but he never shows the videos where people discredit his ideas easily. He might not be a general sociopath but he certainly dehumanizes people and dismisses anything that conflicts with his conservative Christian world view as “leftish propaganda” which is the most grotesque way to argue about anything.

[Simon Paynton]

I’ve never heard anything homophobic or vile or sexist that he’s said.  He’s spoken out against the man-o-sphere.

he certainly dehumanizes people and dismisses anything that conflicts with his conservative Christian world view

Dr Peterson is a liberal, not a conservative Christian.  I used to take part in his Facebook page a lot, and the atmosphere was civil and responsible, although with plenty of humour.  Of course, lots of participants did dismiss alternative points of view, some tried to push it to the right, but without success.  I admit that in his early days he seemed to enjoy the admiration of some of the alt-right, but maybe he realised this could be a stain on his reputation, and he appeared to distance himself from them.

[Simon Paynton]

If the Left get straw-manned – whose fault is that?  This is what I think the silly Left says.

“If you disagree with me, you have harmed me and I feel unsafe”.

“Free thinking is white supremacist bullshit”.

“If you’re not one of us, you’re a fascist”.

In other words, there is a lot of idiotic childish not very nice behaviour, so it’s not surprising if people mock them.

[Simon Paynton]

Anyway, my point is that some people invite straw-manning.  Peter Singer should have known about the “Smoke-detector Principle” whereby we are super-alert to threats and negativity.

[Davis]

Simon I’ve already given you examples and we’ve gone over this before. He isn’t a liberal by any definition. He’s a sack of shit pseudo intellectual who should stick to the subject he was educated in. Your denial of his dark side is both helarious and sad.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by Davis.

[Simon Paynton]

I’m not denying it, I haven’t seen any dark side, nor any sexist, racist or homophobic statements.

My only criticism of him is that it’s hard to get a handle on what he’s talking about.

who should stick to the subject he was educated in

Somebody needed to call out those bullying lunatics.  There is no specialist in “calling out bullying lunatics”, so, who better than a psychology professor?

[Simon Paynton]

OK, so this is in poor taste, but it’s the worst I could find:

Apart from this, I don’t believe you have evidence to back up your claims of racism, sexism or homophobia.

[Belle Rose]

@Davis could you provide at least one example. I’m really interested to understand your perspective because I listen to Jordan Peterson all the time and I really do not understand what all the anger and hatred towards him is about. I really don’t. Have you ever actually listened to any of his lectures?

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

For most of the white male followers of JP seem to think that the best way to empower themselves is for those damn feminists to just shut up. Evangelicals take “religious freedom” to read “I am now privileged to legally discriminate against people that don’t believe what I believe”. It is the same with many men. They think that women have achieved equality and should now just quieten down.

One day I arrived early for an atheist meeting to find a “meet up” of JP fans being completely sexist and generally rude. In my head I saw them as a bunch of lost vulgar idiots in search of an Alpha. Men that are threatened by powerful women empowered women are weak men. Men that need to disrespect women in order to feel “macho”, especially when in the sole company of men, are weak men.

JP plays to this audience in polished generalities. The problems women have with men are not “women’s problems” that feminists should have to address. They are men’s problems that men need to resolve.  Then they might become better men. JP is smart enough to know what he is doing. He might even be conducting his own social experiment, for his own amusement, with his pack of followers. The “crisis in masculinity” is not the fault of women.

[Belle Rose]

@Regthefronkeyfarmer If you listen to what he actually says in regards to those things it is not the same as his stupid punk ass followers. What I have heard him say the most on the issue is the fact that he gets upset about the fact that feminists tend to believe that the gender gap in pay equality it’s only related to gender, and he is pointing out that there are many other factors other than gender that are at play and that those things need to also be taken into account. People take those words and twist them around and make them into whatever they think they want to make them into….But he backs up what he says by the scientific literature and it actually makes a lot of sense. So I still don’t understand… If people would actually here and listen to what he is actually saying, you might actually agree with him.

[Simon Paynton]

Jordan Peterson is no Men’s Rights Activist.  He has said that the man-o-sphere is worthless, and has had to eat his words on one occasion.

He’s actively addressing the “crisis in masculinity”, and not at the expense of feminists.  Again, he’s just calling out the silly woke people who are obsessed with shutting people down.

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

Does anyone agree with these:

Do not bother children when they are skate-boarding.

Pet a cat when you encounter one on the street.

[Simon Paynton]

Pretty much.

[Simon Paynton]

Does anyone agree with these:

[Author]

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