michael17

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  • #26264

    michael17
    Participant

    I want to see the evidence.

    Yes, don’t we all, Michael17 🙂 That is all anyone wants when they don’t take assertions and hearsay on faith alone. When someone makes a claim without any collaborative evidence it is reasonable to doubt its veracity. When someone makes supernatural claims without any collaborative evidence it is reasonable to dismiss it out of hand.
    If I was a Christian I would be annoyed with those who claim to represent Jesus in order to make money or boost they own popularity. As an atheist I absolutely dismiss any claim by any human to be able to call upon the Creator of the Universe and His Son at will in order to cure humans who don’t believe in Him.
    Why don’t these charlatans cure some atheists for a change? I mean we don’t believe Jesus is God just as the Muslims don’t believe it. If they were a bit more John 7:17 or Matthew 6:5 it would help. Just an amateur Peter Popoff.
    Even if he healed an Atheist, it would not be  enough evidence unless he restored a body body part.
    #26258

    michael17
    Participant

     

    “The road to Lourdes is littered with crutches, but not one wooden leg.” Émile Zola.

    Nor one glass eyeball. But he is claimed to have generated missing genitalia in Africa. I want to see the evidence.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  michael17.
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    #26255

    michael17
    Participant

    You pulling our legs man?

    I wouldn’t, but the question, Is he?

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  michael17.
    #25966

    michael17
    Participant

    There is life breathed into its cytoplasm.

    Thanks Michael for the very clear and coherent response. Oh how I love reading your replies and trying to figure out how they answer my questions. So I take it as a no for Harry Potter? Is that correct?

    As much as I like the Harry Potter series. You are correct. There’s a veritable soup of RNA present in the cytoplasm responsible for transport, DNA replication, enzymes and receptors etc. but on a singular basis they are non living components and individually can be inserted into a man made cell and not give rise to life

    Here is a scientific perspective:

    Witold Ferens, Ph.D. in Biology (University of Calgary, 1990);

     
    It is not possible to construct a cell from scratch, for several major reasons:

    Cell structure and arrangements of cellular components (membranes in particular) are not directly coded in DNA sequence; they represent a sort of “institutional memory” of a cell, and are replicated through a process of cellular division.
    Constructing a cell would require us to initiate and regulate life processes during transition from non-living to a living state. However, cells do not have a “switch” that would power a cell up or down, like an electric device; the cell components and molecular tools are made, assembled, and activated in a process that is continuous.
    Cells can go through a controlled “power-off” to spend some time in suspended animation (various forms of inactivity, dormancy, etc.) . However, in this state cells cannot do much in terms of synthesis or assembly. We cannot put together an inactive cell and somehow “switch it” on.
    It is possible to combine elements from different cells to make a viable cell. Most notably, it is possible to install a nucleus from one cell in another cell from which the nucleus was removed – that how organisms can be cloned. It is possible to introduce genetic elements (natural or synthesized) to modify cell genome. It is also possible to exchange or add organelles – but this is shuffling of parts that already exist in the cells.

    You can take a prokaryotic cell, remove a chromosome, and install a a new one – either obtained from another organisms, or synthesized. Some attempts are made using this method to find out the minimal genetic requirements for a living cell, but I don’t think they got very far with that.

     

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  michael17.
    #25961

    michael17
    Participant

    There is life breathed into its cytoplasm.

    Thanks Michael for the very clear and coherent response. Oh how I love reading your replies and trying to figure out how they answer my questions. So I take it as a no for Harry Potter? Is that correct?

    As much as I like the Harry Potter series. You are correct.

    There’s a veritable soup of RNA present in the cytoplasm responsible for transport, DNA replication, enzymes and receptors etc. but on a singular basis they are non living  components and individually can be inserted into a man made cell and not give rise to life.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  michael17.
    #25957

    michael17
    Participant

    there is a non-baryronic presence in the cytoplasm that imbues life which predates this universe.

    That is so interesting Michael. So is this non-baryonic presence in cytoplasm, ahem, the realm where Harry Potter and the Easter Bunny dwell? Or is it only reserved for a one grand immense magical being?

    He should donate his brain to pseudoscience.

    A paramecium with awareness is truly miraculous. A single cell animal is more than the sum total of its DNA and organelles. There is life breathed into its cytoplasm. Scientist can not assemble the lifeless DNA and organelles and construct a living cell without preexisting cytoplasm. It is a fact of life and miraculous or magical from our perspective.

    But, yes preexistence is a theist perspective.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  michael17.
    #25946

    michael17
    Participant

    @Reg Is DNA not inanimate?

    DNA doesn’t meet the definition of life nor do cellular organelles

    In my opinion there is a non-baryronic  presence in the cytoplasm that imbues life which predates this universe.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  michael17.
    #25942

    michael17
    Participant

    Awareness is an emergent property of life. Paramecium  demonstrate an elemental awareness as it hunts for amoeba and the amoeba in turn defense it’s self against the attack of the paramecium. All of this occurring without a nervous system and in real time.  White blood cells, in similar fashion have an elemental awareness of invaders to the blood stream. As life continues to only beget life we can conjecture but not prove that life and awareness can emerge from inanimate matter.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  michael17.
    #24916

    michael17
    Participant

    @Reg  I apologize for the reply delay. It’s been busy rapping up the year.

    Michael, my psyche (naked or not) will never join with Christ. That would be my vision of Hell. Do I still get a “second birth” to be told that I am unsaved?

    You will be resurrected, the the second birth is reserved for those that believe.  The second birth gives you an immortal psyche.

    Am I going to be somehow corporeally reunited with my body as it was before I died?

    Correct.

    Could the unsaved just be allowed to have their psyches burnt in hellfire after their first death?

    Your life and psyche will be destroyed in Gehenna. It’s not a painless destruction.

    If Christ already knows I am not going to be saved why would he need to give me a “second birth” to tell me I am not getting in to Heaven when I was already dead from my first death.

    You will just be resurrected with your  existing perishable mind set. No naked immortal mind for the unsaved. But those who died with a naked immortal mind will receive and immortal body. 

    “I brought you back from the dead to tell you that I am going to burn your psyche to death”. Would it not be easier just to introduce himself to me now so I could tell him that I don’t want to get into Heaven?

    Scholars have interpreted that  the nephilim shall not rise, the progeny of men and fallen angels. These beings may be responsible for the worldwide polygonal masonry that we are unable to duplicate today. It also has been associated with by inference with a global handwriting that has been found on Easter island Maori  buried deep in ancient sediment and submerged sites in the gulf of  Cambay.  Maybe pre-Noahiac  or pre-Adam. Vedic literature speaks of a lost city with a god-king. It may have been found in the gulf of Cambay, India.

    Of course if he already knows this He must be a bit of a sadist to still go through with it. Just kill me once and leave me (the hell) alone after that. If not sit and spin on this! When the music is over just turn out the lights.

    • This reply was modified 9 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 9 months ago by  michael17.
    #24843

    michael17
    Participant

    @Reg You are correct. We do not have souls  as it’s been defined in art, literature and mainstream Christianity. The Greek word that has been rendered soul is nepresh has no spiritual connotation let alone separate from the body. It simply means having the breath of life from God that returns to God. Even plants and animals have the breath of life. But this breath of life  makes your psyche and body alive. Psyche has also been rendered soul. But your Psyche can only become immortal through the rebirth. Your psyche becomes inmortal, but remains naked after you die and joins with Christ. But the unsaved don’t have immortal psyches. Their psyches are destroyed in Gehenna which is Hellfire.

     

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  michael17.
    #24835

    michael17
    Participant

    @dave, We hear what you are saying     in art, literature and mainstream Christian beliefs but it does not jive with the original manuscript. Let’s do a thought experiment, what does this verse mean to you:

    Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.-Matt 10:28

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  michael17.
    #24830

    michael17
    Participant

    Well gentlemen you have a conundrum. There are artificial structures on the moon, including buildings, glass domes and towers. Concrete evidence that your paradigm may be wrong. I can’t even make heads or tails out of it. Was there an advance race on earth billions of years in the past collaborating. the anomalous archaeological artifacts that have been found that academia swepts under the carpet? ( Forbidden Archaeology is one text that deals with the subject matter) a spark plug  has been found in a rock and a hammer in a coal vein to mention a few. Another conjecture is aliens. Moreover, recently artificial structures have photographed on a comet of all things.

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  michael17.
    #24816

    michael17
    Participant

    @Reg

    • As Christ says, souls are destroyed in Hell so I don’t consider it and eternity. But to your question. The possibility of the new birth and seeing creation and heavens through the Fathers eyes makes me feel elation. Living for eternity makes me feel likewise
    #24811

    michael17
    Participant

    @Reg

    To receive the new birth is a blessing, but I have not received it. So far, I’ll have to stand on Judgement Day, like everyone else. “The books were open and the dead were judged”

    Only how my life broadcasts my belief can be evidence for mercy since all men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

    Parochial authorities (Rome) have martyred, the Body making Spiritual baptism harder to receive. Yet the few choosen and faithful lampstands are on this earth somewhere and will commence their testimony even upon the streets of Jerusalem, when the wicked one is revealed.

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by  michael17.
    #24804

    michael17
    Participant

    Presurrection to Judgement.
    They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

    2 Thessalonians 1:9

    This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    weeping and gnashing before the “second death”

    Matthew 13:49-50

    “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

    The eternal fire is prepared for the devil and his angels but for man the “second death”

    Matthew 25:41

    If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

    yes the “second death”

    Mark 9:43

    In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

    That translation does not agree with the original Greek. Use a interlinear

    Jude 1:7
    ____________

    Forgive my bible quoting but, some of the most important job of reasoning with the religious, is pointing out what their scriptures actually say. These various quotes are not a pagan description of hell. This is SCRIPTURE!

    You have only two quotes that could back what you are saying. One is a mistranslation and the other you are reading into it more than it says. Scripture speaks of the resurrection of all flesh to judgement day. Then the unworthy will experience the second death. “The living know they shall die but the dead  they know nothiing”-Job

    There is no ambiguity in the bible. The description of a nasty horrid hell is consistent in various books and mentions fire, eternal torture, flames that get hotter, never ending. Jesus himself warns people against sinning or face the punishment of eternal torture which he seems to have no moral problem with.

    This a direct translation from the Greek below, where as your mistranslated antichrist, false Christ bible will give a pagan version:

    And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and cast it from you, for it is better for you that one of your members should perish and not that your whole body should depart into Gehenna.

    The word perish in the Greek has no connotation of burning forever, moreover with flesh, it is impossible. Only immortal spirits (angels) can suffer flames forever.

    Michael, you consistently quote scripture and evangelistic babble, and yet it seems, with no doubt in my mind, you are extremely unfamiliar with the bible. I mean, either you use the bible as a source of divine wisdom and evidence of God…or you don’t. This cherry picking of yours and claiming any passage of the bible you don’t like is some “pagan” view…is an intellectual impairment. So what is hell then?

    It is a place of eternal torment for the angels that sinned and a place of destruction for mortal flesh, “the second death”-Revelations 

     

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by  michael17.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 79 total)