Does history attest to the accuracy of the prophecy of the book of revelation ?

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This topic contains 136 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  michael17 4 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #29963

    michael17
    Participant

    But I wish that the whole world could be like me.

    Oh, but most are..they wail at a wall, the fly planes into buildings, they kneel in certain directions, erect massive buildings adorned with symbols. The flock to holy lands and march carrying symbols and light candles and burn incense. They study their fairytales and all make predictions, even on street corners with megaphones. There is nothing unique about you at all. Just another nonsense peddler in an ocean of them.

    Superficially I could come to the same conclusion but over the years I see tv evangelist and priests not fighting temptation. I see a world full of hypocrisy. But to you point there are some individuals trying, but not enough to avert the prophecy.

    The rider on the white horse conquering and going to conquer, in the prophecy, are the kingdoms and emperors that are the vestige of the Roman Empire under the temporal powers of the Latin and Greek Primates in Rome and Constantinople, imposing Roman Christianity by the sword. So much for your massive builders in the name of their religion.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  PopeBeanie. Reason: bq fix
    #29968

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    @michael17 Hey Michael, I’ve fixed several posts (and I think I have a few more to go) that start with a blockquote (which is highly appreciated), but you’re not closing the blockquote (by clicking on the ” quote button) before writing your response. I’m not making a big deal out of it, but appreciate your posts and just want them to be as readable as possible by future readers.

    (If/when you can confirm to me that you’ve read this post, I’d like to delete this post and your confirmation, just to keep the flow of the topic going without more interruption. Thank you! My “bq fix” edit notes have to remain because the system doesn’t let us delete them.)

    #29975

    michael17
    Participant

    @popebeanie

    Thanks sir! I have read your tip on posting mechanics.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  michael17.
    #29977

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Michael, what follows is not intended to be an attack on you. Without knowing you, only having read what you have written i am more favorably inclined to you than i am or was to Doctor Bob. I am fairly certain Doctor Bob was a charlatan. You on other hand seem to be honest in giving your opinions and world view.

    Religion is cancer. Humans are as easily imprinted with the cancer as the ducks of Konrad Lorenz were in following him. Any early exposure to it has the potential of metastasizing and ruining a life. But unlike cancer religion is parasitic. Once it hijacks its host, the host becomes vehicle to infect others.

    Human nature is not sinful. Sin is a useful construct. It is a concept that is utilized to control adherents. If you wanted to control members of a new religion/cult how much easier would it be to promulgate taboo behavior that is biologically driven? How much easier to control if you can inculcate the notion that an individual is corrupt/defective at birth and only capable of attaining an improved life (salvation, redemption) if they believe the mythology with all of their heart and submit to the authority of the religion/cult? We possess knowledge of the natural world and know that cults/religions are devoid of truth and operate in such a way that they utilize time-tested psychological tricks to hijack young minds for life.
    It is a tragedy that it has befallen you. I don’t doubt that you are above average in intelligence. Had the brainwashing/indoctrination of young Michael not occurred there is no telling how your life would have unfolded. Maybe you would have become a scientist, historian, writer… Instead you are on a quest for the holy grail. You are on a quest to discover something so chimerical as to be transparent to all..almost all..but not you. Worse, you are trying to convince others of the chimera, of our sinful nature and in so doing you are perpetuating lies and suffering.

    #29978

    michael17
    Participant

    Michael, what follows is not intended to be an attack on you. Without knowing you, only having read what you have written i am more favorably inclined to you than i am or was to Doctor Bob. I am fairly certain Doctor Bob was a charlatan. You on other hand seem to be honest in giving your opinions and world view. Religion is cancer. Humans are as easily imprinted with the cancer as the ducks of Konrad Lorenz were in following him. Any early exposure to it has the potential of metastasizing and ruining a life. But unlike cancer religion is parasitic. Once it hijacks its host, the host becomes vehicle to infect others. Human nature is not sinful. Sin is a useful construct. It is a concept that is utilized to control adherents. If you wanted to control members of a new religion/cult how much easier would it be to promulgate taboo behavior that is biologically driven? How much easier to control if you can inculcate the notion that an individual is corrupt/defective at birth and only capable of attaining an improved life (salvation, redemption) if they believe the mythology with all of their heart and submit to the authority of the religion/cult? We possess knowledge of the natural world and know that cults/religions are devoid of truth and operate in such a way that they utilize time-tested psychological tricks to hijack young minds for life. It is a tragedy that it has befallen you. I don’t doubt that you are above average in intelligence. Had the brainwashing/indoctrination of young Michael not occurred there is no telling how your life would have unfolded. Maybe you would have become a scientist, historian, writer… Instead you are on a quest for the holy grail. You are on a quest to discover something so chimerical as to be transparent to all..almost all..but not you. Worse, you are trying to convince others of the chimera, of our sinful nature and in so doing you are perpetuating lies and suffering.

    I am actually an Engineer at the most prestigious government oversight agency with a masters degree with distinction in addition to having a BS in both engineering and biology. My IQ was measured at 164. I have peer reviewed papers published.

    If you search Think atheist archive you will see my posts on many scientific topics. But like Sir Isaac Newton I have delved deep into eschatology. I consider myself a meta physicist. But I am not here to vaunt my mental acumen outside of  correlating prophecy with recorded history beyond the errors and fallacies I have witnessed in the mainstream. By the way, beyond interpreting dark sentences I was also a tournament chess player once having a USCF experts rating. Growing up as an atheist I started to disprove the existence of God which I presumed to be a fairytale. To my surprise my research left me humbled.But undoubtably you are of high mental acumen also. It would be interesting to hear your conclusions if exposed to my over forty years of research.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  michael17.
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    #29985

    jakelafort
    Participant

    If only you had somehow avoided the indoctrination and been a proper thinking atheist you might have achieved such greatness: town drunk, miscreant, deviant, gutter snipe, urchin, rube, neerdowell, shaman, astronomer, pettifogger, used car salesman…

    Alas and alack your development was abetted by the chains of the church. Having betrayed my great big bias against theism help me sir to think more highly of the indoctrinated. Give me, give us something cogent. Make us think. We have read and heard theologians, evangelists, creationists, apologists and are all found wanting. Really fucking wanting.

    #29986

    jakelafort
    Participant

    woops i am tired…i meant astrologist, not astronomer

    Used car salesman…sorry but your bad reputation is earned

    #29987

    onyangomakagutu
    Participant

    Micheal what evidence did you find that humbled you?

    #29988

    michael17
    Participant

    Micheal what evidence did you find that humbled you?

    When I was an atheist I became aware that the Book of Daniel predicted the succession of world empires from Babylon through the Roman Empire and it speaks of a weak form of the Roman Empire existing later. Back in 1976 to my surprise I found out that negotiations for a United Europe were in process. Thus while in college I wrote a paper entitled “France’s Role towards a European Union”. I was curious if  after 2600 years of predicting history if Daniel was  going to be right this time. The EU appears to be a precursor of revised Roman Empire. And if Turkey succeeds in getting membership,  Rome and Constantinople ( Istanbul), both cities that sit on seven hills, will once again be apart of it. These cities are known by the code word “Babylon the Mysterious and were seats of Empire and where the Primates of the Latin and Greek(Orthodox) Rites still reside. When the Empire fell apart after 476AD, Europe and Asia Minor were still united under the temporal powers of the pope in Rome and the Byzantium Emperor. Even after Byzantium fell Istanbul remained the seat of the Orthodox Rite thus the Beast that looked like a Lamb with two horns ( temporal powers of Rome and Constantinople has prevailed across the millenniums and has imposed its false Christianity by the sword through Crusades, capturing Jerusalem earth through colonial acquisitions , through inquisitions and constructing its massive Babylonian places of false worship around the world, “Babylon the mysterious mother of harlots:7 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

    2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

    5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

    6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

    7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

    8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

    10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

    11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

    12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

    13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

    Well that was the beginning of my investigation. I also became aware that the amount years between the Persian King
    Artaxerxes giving the order to rebuild Jerusalem and Christ was accurately predicted in the book Daniel. This awareness was the start of my humility

    Note that Rome martyred Christians after  the book was written even until recent centuries Rome through the Pope has burned “heretic” so called, alive in addition to torturing them.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  michael17.
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    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  michael17.
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    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  PopeBeanie. Reason: bq fix(es)
    #29994

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Hey Michael,

    I hope you are not part of that FAA ‘oversight’ crew. I designed avionics for decades and well it was trending hard towards the fox guarding the chickens well before I retired. The FAA was the exact opposite of omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent , LOL. And well we all know what happened.

    Your exercise in curve fitting the dots of generic symbolic language to historical events is as weak as it gets. How about a nice game of chess

     

    #29995

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Yes, it sounds like when someone draws a pentagram or whatever on a map, and says “look at how it fits”.  Ignore those bits that don’t.

    #29996

    What is it with religions that always depict women as fornicators, blasphemers and harlots with the implication that such traits are “sinful”?  I have known some beautiful harlots that would even have inspired Hieronymus Bosch to paint more delightful gardens.

    I prophesize that Turkey will not be joining the EU at any point soon so don’t sell everything just yet.

    My IQ was measured at 164….

    I used to think that people with a high IQ would most likely be atheists. I soon discovered that faith is not predicated upon intelligence.  I once wrote a few atheist blogs for Mensa and ran an “Atheist SIG” (special interest group) for a while. Most of the members that turned up were there to disrupt rather than to engage in dialogue. It was like a live edition of Christian Forums. I did manage to eventually persuade a few of them to reconsider their beliefs and to cross to my side of the room, once they came to understand they held onto to faith for emotional reasons rather than holding their beliefs for any considered intellectual reasons.

    No, I don’t believe you can communicate with a Creator God of the Universe……..and no, you will not become an immortal like the god you profess exists in reality. Getting them to reason through that sentence alone does wonders for people of faith.

    #29997

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Earthly delights have to be controlled. If you analyze history through the lens of power you wont be far off. Men are the first shamans. Men are the priests. Men want power. Women are wicked. control your bitch!

    Michael, i have yet to read anything cogent. In terms of your interpretation of history i recommend you read/listen to the amazing Randi. You will observe parallel and faulty thinking that Randi debunks.

    Also what gives you confidence in the bible? Which version? Why is it more reliable than a comic book? A thing can not authenticate itself. How did you go from being an atheist to being a theist? How did you arrive at god?

    #29998

    michael17
    Participant

    Earthly delights have to be controlled. If you analyze history through the lens of power you wont be far off. Men are the first shamans. Men are the priests. Men want power. Women are wicked. control your bitch! Michael, i have yet to read anything cogent. In terms of your interpretation of history i recommend you read/listen to the amazing Randi. You will observe parallel and faulty thinking that Randi debunks. Also what gives you confidence in the bible? Which version? Why is it more reliable than a comic book? A thing can not authenticate itself. How did you go from being an atheist to being a theist? How did you arrive at god?

    I had to use a Greek interlinear since English translations have doctrinal transliterations

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  PopeBeanie. Reason: bq fix(es)
    #29999

    michael17
    Participant

    What is it with religions that always depict women as fornicators, blasphemers and harlots with the implication that such traits are “sinful”? I have known some beautiful harlots that would even have inspired Hieronymus Bosch to paint more delightful gardens. I prophesize that Turkey will not be joining the EU at any point soon so don’t sell everything just yet. My IQ was measured at 164…. I used to think that people with a high IQ would most likely be atheists. I soon discovered that faith is not predicated upon intelligence. I once wrote a few atheist blogs for Mensa and ran an “Atheist SIG” (special interest group) for a while. Most of the members that turned up were there to disrupt rather than to engage in dialogue. It was like a live edition of Christian Forums. I did manage to eventually persuade a few of them to reconsider their beliefs and to cross to my side of the room, once they came to understand they held onto to faith for emotional reasons rather than holding their beliefs for any considered intellectual reasons. No, I don’t believe you can communicate with a Creator God of the Universe……..and no, you will not become an immortal like the god you profess exists in reality. Getting them to reason through that sentence alone does wonders for people of faith.

    I actually took, what was billed, “The Hardest IQ test in the World” given by Omni magazine. I became a member of the 4 Sigma Society. Persons with IQ’s four standard deviations above average. This happen concurrently when I began my research in the late 70’s. The threshold for Mensa I believe is about 132.

    I get your drift about the depiction of woman but i hope they take solace in the body Christ (of believers) being called his bride.

    I agree with you from a causal observers point of view. These days it seem very unlikely that Turkey will join. Let’s see if the prophecy ever come true!

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  michael17.
    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  PopeBeanie. Reason: bq fix(es)
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