Sunni Islam and Shia Islam Together Again…And Against Us!

[—Participant]

Unseen wrote:

Besides, the devil’s in the details as they say. What NOWADAYS (it’s not longer 1967) would satisfy both parties enough to result in signing on the dotted line?

The 1967 borders have been the goto for decades. I don’t think the issue is signing on the dotted line; it’s what follows after. One of the major issues is the idea that this is a matter of two parties. Even if an accord is reached again, there will be a certain number of people on either side who disagree with it enough that they’re willing to fuck it up for everyone. And they’ll have the means to do so because whatever agreement is reached between the two states, the ensuing peace will be incredibly fragile.

As much as we can separate out peoples based on the Palestinian side of the issue and the Israeli side of the issue, we may also be able to divide it between those who are okay living side-by-side and are really ready to just get the fuck on with their lives and those who are hell bent on making it a duel to the death. Obviously it’s not quite that simple, but when we divide people by mindset, we probably would see that the groupings won’t always shape around national identity.

[UnseenParticipant]

Why Israel’s push into Gaza is killing so many children

After President Joe Biden publicly doubted the accuracy of its casualty statistics, the Health Ministry released a list that it said contained the names, ID numbers, and ages of every person killed by Israeli airstrikes. Insider was unable to verify the list, which has been endorsed by officials from the United Nations and the World Health Organization.

Out of every 10 people listed as killed by the Health Ministry, four were children. That proportion of child deaths exceeds all other recent armed conflicts, including Russia’s 2022 invasion of Ukraine.

[_Robert_Participant]

Autumn wrote:

As much as we can separate out peoples based on the Palestinian side of the issue and the Israeli side of the issue, we may also be able to divide it between those who are okay living side-by-side and are really ready to just get the fuck on with their lives and those who are hell bent on making it a duel to the death. Obviously it’s not quite that simple, but when we divide people by mindset, we probably would see that the groupings won’t always shape around national identity.

^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^^

In my opinion the dual to the death idea is much more prevalent on the Arab side as it fits in with their very specific religious instruction from Mohammed their warrior prophet. Unfortunately, there is also a non-negligible minority Zionist group hell-bent on illegal sentiments and a Jewish majority. Perhaps this disaster will make the extremists very unpopular.

@unseen Out of every 10 people listed as killed by the Health Ministry, four were children. That proportion of child deaths exceeds all other recent armed conflicts, including Russia’s 2022 invasion of Ukraine.

This body count BS is nonsense when you murder people at a concert, deploy child human shields, and every other house is hiding a military tunnel entrance or a rocket launch site. I guess dead children are worth way more than adults for some reason, so Hamas loves this.

[UnseenParticipant]

_Robert_ wrote:

This body count BS is nonsense when you murder people at a concert, deploy child human shields, and every other house is hiding a military tunnel entrance or a rocket launch site. I guess dead children are worth way more than adults for some reason, so Hamas loves this.

We aren’t responsible for Hamas’s ethics. They aren’t an “ally.” Israel supposedly is. We help Israel. We are not co-responsible for Hamas’s actions and policies. Unfortunately, when it comes to Israel, we are.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  Unseen.

[_Robert_Participant]

Unseen wrote:

_Robert_ wrote:

This body count BS is nonsense when you murder people at a concert, deploy child human shields, and every other house is hiding a military tunnel entrance or a rocket launch site. I guess dead children are worth way more than adults for some reason, so Hamas loves this.

We aren’t responsible for Hamas’s ethics. They aren’t an “ally.” Israel supposedly is. We help Israel. We are not co-responsible for Hamas’s actions and policies. Unfortunately, when it comes to Israel, we are.

This is very true, however if Hamas (and the Palestinians in general) dropped their destructive goals and sued for peace, you can bet the US and the West would help them immensely.

[UnseenParticipant]

@ Robert

This attack was a long time coming. It’s been fueled by ongoing abuse of Palestinians, treating them inhumanely as subjects rather than citizens. Maybe Israel should apologize and pay reparations and then it should sue for peace.

[_Robert_Participant]

Unseen wrote:

@ Robert This attack was a long time coming. It’s been fueled by ongoing abuse of Palestinians, treating them inhumanely as subjects rather than citizens. Maybe Israel should apologize and pay reparations and then it should sue for peace.

How Delusional can a statement get, me wonders, LOL.

[PopeBeanieModerator]

Unseen wrote:

@ Robert This attack was a long time coming. It’s been fueled by ongoing abuse of Palestinians, treating them inhumanely as subjects rather than citizens. Maybe Israel should apologize and pay reparations and then it should sue for peace.

Are Hamas and Hezbollah itching to make a deal already? That would be awesome.

I’m not saying there’s a better solution. I don’t think a workable solution even exists. Something else, really, really big has to happen before peace can even be discussed. I just don’t know what that could be. That’s why I haven’t spent any time on this topic. My prediction is coming true, that Israel will kill ten times more innocent people than Hamas did. It still won’t solve anything.

[—Participant]

_Robert_ wrote:

Unseen wrote:

@ Robert This attack was a long time coming. It’s been fueled by ongoing abuse of Palestinians, treating them inhumanely as subjects rather than citizens. Maybe Israel should apologize and pay reparations and then it should sue for peace.

How Delusional can a statement get, me wonders, LOL.

While it isn’t likely, it could be cheaper in the long run. There is unlikely to ever be a peace where there is zero extremism. Even the most stable economies on the face of the planet still deal with at least some extremist violence from both internal and external agents. But there is value in a Palestine that, over the course of a few decades, becomes politically and economically stable and that pushes the extremists to the fringes.

[UnseenParticipant]

A Dangerous Conflation:An open letter from Jewish writers

WE ARE JEWISH WRITERS, artists, and activists who wish to disavow the widespread narrative that any criticism of Israel is inherently antisemitic. Israel and its defenders have long used this rhetorical tactic to shield Israel from accountability, dignify the US’s multibillion-dollar investment in Israel’s military, obscure the deadly reality of occupation, and deny Palestinian sovereignty. Now, this insidious gagging of free speech is being used to justify Israel’s ongoing military bombardment of Gaza and to silence criticism from the international community. 

We condemn the recent attacks on Israeli and Palestinian civilians and mourn such harrowing loss of life. In our grief, we are horrified to see the fight against antisemitism weaponized as a pretext for war crimes with stated genocidal intent.

[UnseenParticipant]

Israeli Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Decries Israel’s Assault on Gaza

This scholar ticks off the boxes to show that Israel is itself doing (and has been doing) genocide against the Palestinians.

Israel’s rold in creating Hamas:

Ritter makes a lot of interesting points about Gaza.

 

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Without having seen the videos at all, I can tell you this “Scholar” can’t do arithmetic.

There are more Arabs in both Israel and The West Bank and Gaza than there was when Israel began. That is not how actual genocide works.

Also, as horrible as civilian deaths are in war, they do not have the premeditated, conscious intent and hatred aforethought of genocide. They are not the same. And this also holds true regarding collateral civilian deaths of ethnic Russians in the 2014 war between Russia and Ukraine. Horrible, yes, but not genocide.

But, of course, it is an act of futility to explain this to the morally inverted and deranged.

[_Robert_Participant]

I can’t forget seeing video of Palestinian men, woman and children cheering in Jerusalem on 9/11 and 9/12 on TV. I also have to wonder about the LGBT geniuses out supporting a society that executes them.

His name was Ahmad Hacham Hamdi abu Marakhia. He had to escape Palestine after his sexual orientation was revealed. Palestinian authorities told him his life would be in danger if he even returned to Palestine. Then he was beheaded, and as a message to other LGBT people in Palestine, as the Associated Press reported, “Graphic footage taken by Palestinian youths who happened upon Abu Murkhiyeh’s dismembered body on a hillside rippled through WhatsApp groups, provoking shock and horror, before being taken down.”

Of course, Iran really calls the shots in Palestine. His name was Alireza Fazeli Monfared and he was only 20 years old.

Fazeli Monfared was homosexual and due to the difficulties he faced because of his sexual orientation, was about to flee his native Iran for Turkey.

But he was reportedly beheaded by his family members before he could leave the southwestern province of Khuzestan after they accused him of dishonoring the family.

They are as innocent as their religion that seeks to dominate the globe allows.

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

There are more Arabs in both Israel and The West Bank and Gaza than there was when Israel began. That is not how actual genocide works.

Clearly you didn’t watch the first video, because that’s not how genocide is defined. It’s defined in terms of intent as manifested in actions, not in terms of success. Things like siege warfare, forced migration, and attacking refugees are all genocidal war crimes.

[UnseenParticipant]

@ Robert

Israeli Zionists view non-Jews (not just Palestinians) as lesser beings for not having been “chosen by God.” When Netanyahu describes Hamas as “animals” (a term and concept familiar to us from Nazi idiology’s depiction of Jews), he doesn’t mean just Hamas.

I can’t forget seeing video of Palestinian men, woman and children cheering in Jerusalem on 9/11 and 9/12 on TV. I also have to wonder about the LGBT geniuses out supporting a society that executes them.

That is likely because they equate the U.S. with Israel through America’s unwavering and unquestioning support of Israel almost no matter what. They are aware of injustices they suffer at the hands of Israel while Israel’s #1 sponsor, the U.S. turns a blind eye.

The U.S. has for too long tolerated Israel’s cruel and demeaning treatment of Palestinians. The hatred isn’s in spite of Israel’s generosity toward Palestinians, because it has tendered none.

Israel isn’t just an apartheid state, it’s run by a genocidal regime which fulfills most of the criteria defining genocide, which are as follows. Note that Israel is clearly guilty of more than half of them and is arguably working on the others:

Dehumanization: The targeted group is often dehumanized, portrayed as subhuman, or described in derogatory terms in propaganda, media, or official discourse.

Discriminatory Laws and Policies: Discriminatory laws and policies are implemented, such as restrictions on the targeted group’s rights, movement, education, or economic opportunities.

Mass Killings: Widespread and systematic killings, including mass murders, massacres, or extrajudicial executions, are reported.

Forced Displacement: Large-scale forced displacement or expulsion of the targeted group from their homes and lands is common. This may be accompanied by destruction of property or infrastructure.

Persecution: The targeted group faces severe persecution, which can include torture, sexual violence, imprisonment, or forced labor.

Hate Speech and Propaganda: Hate speech, propaganda, and incitement to violence are used to foment hatred and division among different groups.

Isolation and Segregation: The targeted group is isolated or segregated from the rest of society, often through the creation of separate enclaves, ghettos, or concentration camps.

Denial of Aid and Basic Needs: Access to basic necessities like food, water, and healthcare is denied to the targeted group, leading to suffering and death.

Destruction of Cultural and Religious Symbols: Cultural and religious sites, artifacts, and symbols of the targeted group are intentionally destroyed.

International Isolation: The perpetrators often work to isolate their actions from international scrutiny and intervention, making it difficult for external parties to assess the situation.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  Unseen.

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