Sunni Islam and Shia Islam Together Again…And Against Us!

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Fellow Unbelievers,

Everybody please stop using the word “camp” in relation to Gaza!

I’ve done primitive camping many times and none of it involves high-rises, sophisticated tunnels, and rocketry!

[_Robert_Participant]

No matter what you say that does not change the fact that Jihadist Muslims are in charge of Gaza. They want to destroy Israel and murder all Jews. They want to destroy homosexuals. They want to destroy atheists. So, if you lived in Gaza right now and had the balls to admit you do not submit to Allah, they would cut off those balls and stuff them in your decapitated head. What part of this do you not understand? Last year Hamas murdered one of their own generals because he slept with a man.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/world/middleeast/hamas-commander-mahmoud-ishtiwi-killed-palestine.html

Now they really fucked around and now they are finding out. And all the idiotic liberals who simp for Islam won’t be so happy if Allah’s people ever get any power. I have no doubt that the moment Jihadists get a working atomic weapon or radioactive material even, just admit you know they are gonna blow it off ASAP, maybe in NY.

[UnseenParticipant]

@ Robert

You can argue against Israel and especially its government and a) not be antisemitic and b) not approve of Hamas.

If you’re arguing that the nastiness of Islam in general and Hamas specifically justifies Israel’s apartheidism and genocidal tendencies, there are some premises missing from your argument.

BTW, Israel created today’s Hamas by sponsoring it behind the scenes, as an antidote to the PLO, so now they reap what they sowed. It’s similar to the U.S. supporting the Mujahideen, which we came to regret due to our lack of foresight and short-term thinking.

They want to kill every last Palestinian because they know that the heavier they come down on the Palestinians, the more recruits now and in the future they give Hamas, so to almost obliterate the Palestinians as a people is the only logical method that explains their current level of brutality and disregard for Palestinian civilians.

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Fellow Unbelievers, Everybody please stop using the word “camp” in relation to Gaza! I’ve done primitive camping many times and none of it involves high-rises, sophisticated tunnels, and rocketry!

When there is a wall around where you live and you need to pass through military guards to get in and you were forced inside by the government who runs that military, it qualifies as a prison and a kind of concentration camp. Building a high rise or a primitive weapon (equivalent to a prison inmate’s handmade “shiv”), doesn’t change it from a prison to a tropical resort.

[_Robert_Participant]

[_Robert_Participant]

They created that situation by becoming Muslim extremists and Jihadists. The West has to make a choice here. And the choice is ensuring the rights won by women and LGBTQ people are not wiped away in a few decades by that insane religion and the complete control on individual rights that it asserts.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Those rockets,that Hamas fired into Israel were not prison shivs and the tunnels Hamas built have concrete walls, electric lighting, ventilation, and amenities as well as munitions storage.

You would think that if Hamas gave a damn about the Palestinians, they wouldn’t extort the Palestinians and use aid from Iran and other Muslim supporters to pay for these expensive tunnels.

You’d think they’d let Palestinians keep the fruits of their own labor to invest in their own Free-Market Capitalist solutions to their developmental problems. You know, like other human beings have done to great success elsewhere.

You’d think they would educate their children to learn something of success from the history of their Jewish cousins instead of using Seseme Street-type programs to brainwash them in Anti-Jewish hatred.

You’d think all of this…if Hamas wasn’t as morally inverted and deranged as you.

[—Participant]

_Robert_ wrote:

They created that situation by becoming Muslim extremists and Jihadists. The West has to make a choice here…

The “West” doesn’t intervene on that basis. Not really. I mean, let’s get fucking real here. Even if we did, the slaughter of civilians isn’t the way to get from A to B. The more Gaza feels isolated, and the more deaths that come at the hands of the IDF, but more political currency Muslim hardliners get.

[_Robert_Participant]

Autumn wrote:

_Robert_ wrote:

They created that situation by becoming Muslim extremists and Jihadists. The West has to make a choice here…

The “West” doesn’t intervene on that basis. Not really. I mean, let’s get fucking real here. Even if we did, the slaughter of civilians isn’t the way to get from A to B. The more Gaza feels isolated, and the more deaths that come at the hands of the IDF, but more political currency Muslim hardliners get.

 

I just saw a video at a “Destroy Israel” rally in London where a group of immigrants started berating a guy for wearing nail-polish. He should be careful what he wishes for. I saw the photos of some Muslims as they behead a cop in the street, making Jack the Ripper look like an amateur.

Again, they are still launching rockets at Israel from hospitals and schools. Also, Israel said they would cease fire when Hamas releases all the hostages. So, they are getting what they deserve. This title “Sunni Islam and Shia Islam Together Again” is ironic seeing how the Saudi coalition has killed over 150 thousand Yemeni civilians. Didn’t see the liberal protesters out for all that. But if Jews defend themselves against being murdered, holy crap!

[—Participant]

_Robert_ wrote:

I just saw a video at a “Destroy Israel” rally in London where a group of immigrants started berating a guy for wearing nail-polish. He should be careful what he wishes for.

This conflict really doesn’t have much of anything to do with that. The UK won’t become a Palestinian or Islamic state because the IDF kills fewer kids. Palestine won’t become an LGBT-tolerant space because the IDF kills more. Regardless of which way the conflict goes, the needle isn’t moving on this.

And the reason I say ‘killing kids’ is not for the sensationalism. It’s to be clear that the point of objection from many is not that Hamas is innocent and that Israel doesn’t have the right to self-defence, but rather the recklessness of that self-defence has lead to the loss of thousands of civilian lives including those not old enough to even fully grasp what homophobia means.

I saw the photos of some Muslims as they behead a cop in the street, making Jack the Ripper look like an amateur.

I saw a video of Brazilian football fans beheading a referee at a game after the ref stabbed a player.

Again, they are still launching rockets at Israel from hospitals and schools.

While it’s pretty broadly accepted that Hamas shouldn’t use sensitive areas as shields, there is a limit to how much Israel can use that as an excuse. Have you seen a map of Gaza? It’s small. About half the size of NYC’s landmass and it’s mostly developed aside from some farmland, beach, and a bit of water. There is nowhere Hamas can be that doesn’t put civilians at risk by proximity. Unlike Israel, Hamas can’t create military installations and hide them. And despite having acquired better rockets over the decades, Gaza presents a far smaller threat to Israel than the other way around.

Also, Israel said they would cease fire when Hamas releases all the hostages. So, they are getting what they deserve.

I don’t see why Hamas would believe them, to be honest. Every time conflict kicks off, Israel gives a disproportionately violent response and it is not a response that targets insurgents/ extremists, but rather one launched with shocking indifference to civilian casualties.  While using hospitals as shields is wrong, even if Hamas chose other locations innocents are still going to be caught in the cross fire because there is nowhere for any of them to go. It’s a fish in a barrel scenario.

None of this exonerates militants from Gaza attacking civilians across the border. Operation Al-Aqsa Flood is also a disproportionate retaliation with outright malice toward civilians. What I cannot figure out is why you keep making excuses for Israel. I know as an American is the cultural norm to slaughter people with disproportionate force if they piss y’alls off, but that doesn’t make it okay. “Self-defence” is not carte blanche to go ham.

[UnseenParticipant]

_Robert_ wrote:

They created that situation by becoming Muslim extremists and Jihadists. The West has to make a choice here. And the choice is ensuring the rights won by women and LGBTQ people are not wiped away in a few decades by that insane religion and the complete control on individual rights that it asserts.

No one here (in this board in particular) is arguing on behalf of Islam. Christianity, which spawned innumerable pograms and colonizations, doesn’t have a much better history. Islam is just historically behind.

Our choice, implied by you, is to sink along with Israel to the level of Hamas. Well, at least Hamas has a legitimate gripe, as do all Palestinians, and if they don’t want to be good little inmates and just shut up and suffer quietly but instead start a prison riot, then Israel has no choice but to go in killing fairly indiscriminately, apparently. That’ll teach them not to become terrorists, won’t it.

Now since you brought up the treatment of women and LGBTQ’s in some parts of the Islamic world, it’s important to recognize that one mustn’t engage in stereotyping. Otherwise, one might assume that the treatment of women and LGBTQ folk is abysmal everywhere in the Christian world based on the worst examples and including both official and unofficial attitudes.

Major parts of the Islamic world are actually liberalizing along with countries with sizeable Muslim populations. To wit…

Indonesia is the world’s largest Muslim-majority country and is known for its religious pluralism and tolerance. Although Indonesia is still a conservative country, it has made significant progress in terms of gender equality and LGBTQ rights in recent years. For example, the Indonesian government has passed laws prohibiting child marriage and domestic violence. Additionally, the Indonesian government has taken steps to recognize transgender people and protect their rights.

Malaysia is another Muslim-majority country that is making progress in terms of gender equality and LGBTQ rights. The Malaysian government has passed laws prohibiting child marriage and sexual harassment. Additionally, the Malaysian government has taken steps to recognize transgender people and protect their rights.

Singapore is a multiracial and multireligious country with a strong emphasis on social harmony. The Singaporean government has a policy of religious tolerance and promotes interfaith dialogue. Although Singapore is still a conservative country, it has made significant progress in terms of gender equality and LGBTQ rights in recent years. For example, the Singaporean government has passed laws prohibiting child marriage and domestic violence. Additionally, the Singaporean government has taken steps to recognize transgender people and protect their rights.

United Arab Emirates is a Muslim-majority country that is home to a diverse population of expatriates from all over the world. The UAE is known for its religious tolerance and its commitment to interfaith dialogue. The UAE has made significant progress in terms of gender equality and LGBTQ rights in recent years. For example, the UAE government has passed laws prohibiting child marriage and domestic violence. Additionally, the UAE government has taken steps to recognize transgender people and protect their rights.

Before judging Islam based on its worst examples, you might look at what’s going on right here in America and what’s being promoted by the Trumpublican Party in particular.

[_Robert_Participant]

Yeah, the UAE hands out money so that keeps the extremists out. When the oil runs out, it will be a different story. You can take a trip to Afghanistan and see how wonderful life is for women now that the imperialists are gone. They marched in the streets for a few days after the army ran away because they knew what was coming. Educated people had to hide their books. And well, now they are back to stoning women.

Malaysia has been successful at fighting local and foreign Islamic terrorists for now. It doesn’t matter where you are; if you are an Islamic nation there are more than enough Jihadists waiting for their chance. Yes, there are a few Jewish extremist groups but nothing like the breadth and depth of strife caused by Islam. Boko Haram is particularly devastating in Africa. So, Israel is to lay down her arms and Hamas is going to play nice, right? Sorry, but that is idiotic.

Abdallah Azzam Brigades (AAB)
Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
Al-Ashtar Brigades (AAB)
Al-Murabitoun
Al-Muwaqi’un Bil Dima
Al Qaida
Al Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)
Al Qaida in the Indian Subcontinent (AQIS)
Al Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)
Al Shabaab
Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade (AAMB)
Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya (AGAI)
Ansar al-Islam (AI)
Armed Islamic Group (GIA)
Asbat Al-Ansar (AAA) (The League of Partisans)
Babbar Khalsa International (BKI)
Boko Haram
Caucasus Emirate
Gulbuddin Hekmatyar
Gulbuddin Hekmatyar’s Faction of the Hezb-e Islami, Hezb-e Islami Gulbuddin (HIG)
Hamas (Harakat Al-Muqawama Al-Islamiya) (Islamic Resistance Movement)
Haqqani Network
Harakat al-Sabireen (HaS)
Harakat ul-Mudjahidin (HuM)
HASAM (Harakat Sawa’d Misr)
Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham
Hizballah
Hizbul Mujahideen
Indian Mujahideen (IM)
International Sikh Youth Federation (ISYF)
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps’ Qods Force
Islamic State
Islamic State – Bangladesh
Islamic State – Democratic Republic of the Congo
Islamic State East Asia
Islamic State in the Greater Sahara
Islamic State – Khorasan Province (ISKP)
Islamic State in Libya
Islamic State – Sinai Province (ISSP)
Islamic State West Africa Province
Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM)
Jama’at Nusrat Al-Islam Wal-Muslimin
Jaysh Al-Muhajirin Wal-Ansar (JMA)
Jemaah Islamiyyah (JI)
Movement for Oneness and Jihad in West Africa (MOJWA)
Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command (PFLP-GC)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Taliban
Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP)

[_Robert_Participant]

Quran 8:12 I will soon cast into the hearts of the ones who are non-muslims (kuffar) horror; so cut above their necks of non-muslims (kuffar), and cut every finger-tips of them.”

Quran 9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and Muhammad said.

Quran 5:51 O who have believed, don’t take Christians and Jews as friends Qur’an 4:24 except for the married believing women. the women and girls of non-muslim (kuffar) who the believers (Muslims) capture can be used as sex slaves (bonds). This is Allah decree for you.

[UnseenParticipant]

We get it. Islam is bad. So is Christianity. So is Israel. You say a two-state solution is needed. The only way that will happen is if it’s IMPOSED on Israel by outsiders (and we can see how well that worked, can’t we?).

[UnseenParticipant]

@ Robert

What if Hamas were operating not out of Gaza but in Israel itself? Would it still kill civilians so casually? Bomb apartment blocks? Ask the population to move to the other end of the country?

 

[Author]

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