Sunni Islam and Shia Islam Together Again…And Against Us!

[jakelafortParticipant]

Let em eat Kake?

What are the lessons?

For my 12 cents owing to inflation humans are bogged down by their nature-presumably it is the need for group cohesiveness imbedded in our biology. No survival without cohesion. That was then. Now it is followers, followers towing the party line be they the most ignorant and poverty stricken, the most religious, the least educated or most. Now the personal characteristics required of individuals to be socially cohesive are dangerous. Islam the massive cult in so many ways causes harm. Lives are cheapened and rights & expectations consistent with secular modern civ. are absent. In their place the unbending authoritarian tyranny of Islam and its insistence to attain power and purity. It is so retarded to embrace and protect Islam. Secular humanists enabling instead of fighting its unspeakable influence. And it is far beyond the intractable issues of Israelis and Palestinians. Yeah criticize it and you are a bigot. The people under its influence born into it have been victims of indoctrination in what should be a crime.

Where does the wrath get funnelled? Hmmm, could it be Israel? The age old proven scapegoats? Yeah we know who. Lets charge them with our historical crimes and expiate our guilt. We shall project onto the state of Israel and the Jews in general all of our outrage to mask our guilt. Lets charge them with our crimes: colonialism, apartheid, and then discredit the validity of their state. Lets exploit the unquestioning mindless masses who are within our ranks and create juicy narratives that the believers will propagate. We shall look the other way at every turn at oppression, senseless wars, genocide, dictatorships, absence of civil rights. We shall add credibility by trumpeting the censure of important sounding monitors like UN and Human Rights and Amnesty who are by all means objective in their assessments. When the UN has school teachers teaching Gazans to murder Jews well that is not really a story. It doesn’t even fit within our agenda and narrative. And the actual abuses of Israel we shall shine a light so bright and outrage so intense that our adherents will celebrate the death of Jews in a sneak attack and depict terrorists as being on an equal plane of moral righteousness or in many cases being in the right. Genocides in Africa? We’ll get right on that shit when we’re not a little too busy.

Humans are so hopeless that were we able to erase religion entirely we would create secular religions. Or are we there? Every fucking political party and movement turns into a religion. Were i emperor of the world i would incorporate critical thinking at every stage of education. If you can’t think for yourself you are led. You are directed. I am not sure humans are capable of it. I suspect it would not work on enough of us to make a difference. But it is damn sure worth a try. I mean the free marketplace of ideas is such a ridiculous joke. The only venue i know that kind of works that way is science. Ultimately bad “ideas” are weeded out. Even though capitalism has a bad influence on science and preconceived notions of scientists have a bad influence the scientific method works. It overcomes the foibles of humans. More or less.

Kake the fake, OUT

[_Robert_Participant]

The extremism on both the left and the right just blinds people and then all conversation stops. Universities have become day-care centers, coddling feelings over the truths of a harsh world. I’m not going to align with extreme lefties who have lost sight of classic liberal values, nor will I ever fall for the populist, nationalist MAGA, quasi-fascist bullshit.  The root justification for this sort of violence in the Middle East is coming from Islamic law/Jihadism. It is what it is.

 

[UnseenParticipant]

_Robert_ wrote:

Israel doesn’t want or purposely attempt to kill non-combatant Palestinians.

You’re making a distinction that sounds a lot like the one between first and second degree murder or reckless endangerment.

But is Netanyahu losing any sleep over collaterally damaged Palestinian civilians? No. But you can be sure he’d be a lot more careful if Hamas was operating inside Israel. Then collateral damage would need to be taken a lot more seriously.

1 Hamas bad guy=about 12-15 noncombatant Palestinians (Yeah, that’s the ticket.)

Maybe “there are no innocent Palestinians,” which I’ve heard an Israeli official say. Of course, the same theory could be used against Americans someday. Then it would be wrong, of course, but against Palestinians it’s the right thing to do.

You’ve said the Palestinians should just get over it and move on. When is it time to get over something? Joe raped your underage sister, but that was over ten years ago. Water under the bridge. Time heals all wounds. Forgive and forget. The Israelis made a concentration camp for you. Que sera sera, right?Don’t like the space they so generously provided for you? Too late now, just suck it up, crybabies.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Well said again Robert.

My sentiments are liberal all the way but fuck that shit.

[_Robert_Participant]

Unseen wrote:

_Robert_ wrote:

Israel doesn’t want or purposely attempt to kill non-combatant Palestinians.

You’re making a distinction that sounds a lot like the one between first and second degree murder or reckless endangerment. But is Netanyahu losing any sleep over collaterally damaged Palestinian civilians? No. But you can be sure he’d be a lot more careful if Hamas was operating inside Israel. Then collateral damage would need to be taken a lot more seriously. 1 Hamas bad guy=about 12-15 noncombatant Palestinians (Yeah, that’s the ticket.) Maybe “there are no innocent Palestinians,” which I’ve heard an Israeli official say. Of course, the same theory could be used against Americans someday. Then it would be wrong, of course, but against Palestinians it’s the right thing to do. You’ve said the Palestinians should just get over it and move on. When is it time to get over something? Joe raped your underage sister, but that was over ten years ago. Water under the bridge. Time heals all wounds. Forgive and forget. The Israelis made a concentration camp for you. Que sera sera, right?Don’t like the space they so generously provided for you? Too late now, just suck it up, crybabies.

You always miss the crux. Let’s start with the Palestinian’s government charter.

Article 9: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine and is therefore a strategy and not tactics. The Palestinian Arab people affirms its absolute resolution and abiding determination to pursue the armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution, to liberate its homeland and return to it to maintain its right to a natural life in it, and to exercise its right of self-­ determination in it and sovereignty over it.

Applying your entitled/Western values to religious fundies who do not fear death? Look at the polls. Over half of Gazans say they support Hamas. Well of course, they have been indoctrinated by their ‘innocent’ parents. How come the people were not in the hundreds of miles of tunnels when the bombs started falling? An Iranian sponsored nation of martyrs. Iranian leadership is so happy with all the Western “so-called liberals” beating up Jews and painting swastikas. All this takes the heat off of them. It’s not like Iranian women are a happy bunch. Israel can only lose by winning. Great work!

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Jake,

I just now seen I typed “Kake” instead of Jake. My apologies for not getting my glasses prescription renewed.

Although I will say, to use the parlance of the young folks today, that the cut of your jib and the nub of the jist of your words are indeed “cake.”

Now, to work on points for style, the idea of being an Emperor of the World and forcing the “cake” of critical thought down people’s throats is a contradiction in terms. Force and mind are opposites.

The only way that “cake” will ever sell is to bake it in the open, let the sweet aroma waft through the air of– dare I say it–the marketplace, and give some samples away as both a loss leader and a gain grabber. Then, when everyone sees the fruits of that labor, those of the world who see the good will beat a path to your door.

As for those who don’t see the good and want to destroy the bakery, have someone at the front porch of the bakery cleaning the gun and humming “Anticipation…”

[jakelafortParticipant]

Enco it would be lovely if humans responded well to that free market. If the very brightest generalists among us were all of us then it might be reasonably efficient. I would no more force critical thinking on students then any other subject is forced. If you proved a typical dolt then you can take shop, auto mechanics ( i got a C in that) or an extra gym class.

Here is Harris’ treatment of the issues we’ve been torturing and represents my thinking in the great majority of issues.

[UnseenParticipant]

DOHA, Qatar: I am in the studio of Al Jazeera’s Arabic service watching a live feed from Gaza City. The Al Jazeera reporter in northern Gaza, because of the intense Israeli shelling, was forced to evacuate to southern Gaza. He left his camera behind. He trained it on Al-Shifa hospital, Gaza’s largest medical complex. It is night. Israeli tanks fire directly towards the hospital compound. Long horizontal red flashes. A deliberate attack on a hospital. A deliberate war crime. A deliberate massacre of the most helpless civilians, including the very sick and infants. Then the feed goes dead.

We sit in front of the monitors. We are silent. We know what this means. No power. No water. No internet. No medical supplies. Every infant in an incubator will die. Every dialysis patient will die. Everyone in the intensive care unit will die. Everyone who needs oxygen will die.  Everyone who needs emergency surgery will die. And what will happen to the 50,000 people who, driven from their homes by the relentless bombing, have taken refuge on the hospital grounds? We know the answer to that as well. Many of them, too, will die.

There are no words to express what we are witnessing. In the five weeks of horror this is one of the pinnacles of horror. The indifference of Europe is bad enough.  The active complicity by the United States is unfathomable. Nothing justifies this. Nothing. And Joe Biden will go down in history as an accomplice to genocide. May the ghosts of the thousands of children he has participated in murdering haunt him for the rest of his life. 

(from TheHorror, The Horror by Chris Hedges)

• This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Unseen.
• This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Unseen.

[UnseenParticipant]

@ Robert

More than half the Gazans support Hamas. What was their choice? Who else could they vote for who would help them with their plight? Who else was there to express their rage at losing their ancestral home and land and at being forced into an open air prison? at being subjected to the brutality of the Israeli police?

You quote the country’s Constitution but leave out that the man in power is basically a Trump type. He wants to turn the Israeli Supreme Court into basically an agency of his administration. And like Trump’s actions lately, it’s because he wants to stay out of prison. So don’t come to me with the noble words of their constitution. They are empty words absent a will to enforce them.

Israel was a bad idea to start with and what it’s turned into is all the evidence any rational person should need.

• This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Unseen.

[UnseenParticipant]

Hitch on Israel and Zionism:

[jakelafortParticipant]

In other news that will cause massive protests world wide or is it the sound and impact of a leaf falling from its tree onto the forest floor.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/10/corpses-on-streets-sudans-rsf-kills-1300-in-darfur-monitors-say

[UnseenParticipant]

“If any other nation behaved this way, we would sever relations…Shame on us.”

[UnseenParticipant]

Damning evidence of war crimes as Israeli attacks wipe out entire families in Gaza

So, let me get this straight: When Russia does it’s criminal. When Israel does it, meh?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

• This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by  Unseen.
• This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by  Unseen.
• This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by  Unseen.
• This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by  Unseen.

[UnseenParticipant]

Do you want Israel to survive and for the U.S. to stay out of wars it can’t win, Israel needs to be stopped from flattening Gaza and continuing to prosecute its genocidal war on Palestinians NOW!

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Jake,

Nothing wrong with shop or auto mechanics classes. If anything, a little more than layperson’s knowledge on these subjects can keep you from being a victim of everyday Woo. Having a Haynes Manual for your particular make and model of vehicle on the dashboard shows professionals that their prognoses can be either corroborated or refuted elsewhere and they are dealing with a curious, informed customer.

[Author]

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