Sunni Islam and Shia Islam Together Again…And Against Us!

[_Robert_Participant]

The thing about Gaza is the incredibly high birth rate and the huge proportion of impressionable young people who have been indoctrinated into hate. The womb has been weaponized as Arafat wished and predicted.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Fellow Unbelievers,

A fantastic video from Dr. Thomas Sewell on Antisemitism!

It includes a section at the beginning on all of Israel’s enemies in the U.N. and a devastating speech at the end condemning The Palestinian Authority from former Hamas member Mosab Hassan Yousef! (Despite Yousef’s conversion to non-denominational Christianity, his speech was correct and took great courage!)

Less than 11 minutes and well worth watching! (I’m looking at you, Unseen!)

Thomas Sowell on the Truth behind Antisemitism

• This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Respelling "Sewell" to "Sowell.". Because like him, I want to do So Well!😁
• This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Addendum

[UnseenParticipant]

Davis wrote:

There has to be accountability within Gaza for what Hamas does. They are elected (even if it is done, to some extent with anti-democratic measures). There are ways to resist Hamas. Survey after survey shows majority support for militant crimes against innocents and a majority support for Hamas in Gaza (over half the populace has a positive view of Hamas). Everything is nuanced of course, but eliminating accountability is foolish. That isn’t to say that getting leaders to change their policies is easy, but broad support is enabling.

When gauging support for Hamas, one has to consider what are the alternatives? one of them being is there anything with a prospect of getting their land, taken away from them by U.N. banditry, returned to them, short of “at the cost of innocent lives,” which they see as people being used as human shields by the oppressive apartheid Israeli government.

Every party in the area has their own perspective. When you ignore these points of view, it’s easy to take sides. (I’m looking at you, Enco.)

• This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by  Unseen.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by  Unseen.

[jakelafortParticipant]

It is all over the middle east. AJ. iNDOCTRINATION of kids. Minds twisted from childhood. And unless it stops there will be no stability there. UN teachers telling Palestinian kids to go kill Jews? How is that not a scandal? How can things get better more than temporarily unless the atmosphere of hatred is dialed down and the coals of that hatred are no longer stoked?

The coalition of Arab nations that attacked the newborn state did it not out of concern for welfare of Palestinians. They did it out of hatred of Jews. Nothing has changed. Provocations are irrelevant. Thus the various nations and terrorist groups have gone at Israel on and off for the whole of its existence.

To make things better we need some impetus to stop the spread of hate. Stop dehumanizing. Islam in and of itself is a big source of hatred. To add to it in education with Nazi lies is just intolerable. It is not a mistake that citizens of various Arab countries want blood. Again they could give a rat’s about Palestinians. They want Jews dead because of how they’ve been brainwashed. No surprise to me that Egypt is denying aid or allowing Palestinians to escape the horror show. Where are the open arms from Arab nations for their Palestinian brothers? Where is the aid from oil rich nations? Reverse the roles and Jews in surrounding nations would take in other Jews and give aid.

Israel needs to stop the settlements. Tell its orthodox to chew tobacco. I see no reason in time that Palestinians Israelis could not be citizens with rights same as all other Israelis if the middle eastern milieu changed. Druze are proof of that. If you don’t believe me look it up. I would have Israel absorb Gaza. It is gonna be virtually leveled and unlivable after this. Jordan should take much of the West Bank and all of Jerusalem so the Muslims in surrounding nations could stop whining and be deprived of one of their reasons to hate and attack Jews. Get the Jewish settlers out of the West Bank. Palestinians in West Bank including some from Gaza would become Jordanian citizens. Palestinians in Gaza would become citizens of other Arab nations or whichever nations would grant citizenship. Programs encouraging kids from Israel and other Arab nations to join in activities together encouraging friendship would be on a grand scale. Economic incentives for business cooperatives would be initiated. Watch dog groups would monitor the curriculum of ALL nations. It is in the interest of civilization to find a way to ameliorate a region that is just gonna yo yo without some major changes. Ideally Islam would kick rocks and Judaism also along with every other religion for that matter. But that is a bridge way too far. Secular influences over time will be a benefit in weakening Islam. Israel is already one of the less religious nations in the world.

Then i woke to the smoke, smears, death, ignorance and on the hatred choked.

[UnseenParticipant]

One of the clearest thinkers of the day discussing the Gaza situation.

[UnseenParticipant]

@ Jake

Stop teaching hate? That could start at home. Israeli schools (a separate system from schools for Palestinians, which do foster hate) are just more subtle about it, with their constant harping on the assumption that Israel must forever remain a Jewish majority state, which leaves the obvious unaddressed question of “How do you handle it if non-Jews, like Palestinians, for example, threaten to become the majority?”

Obviously, you need to get rid of the non-Jews one way or another. If you can’t get them to leave, push them out, or do it in a nice way, that leaves killing them. Do you see another way to keep Israel a majority Jewish country, assuming that Israeli Jews aren’t interested in having a baby boom and there’s no way go speed up the immigration of Jews from outside?

Israel, by its design, intentionally or unintentionally, needs to be run as an apartheid state.

So, what’s it like in Israel’s schools? Two readings for you:

Teaching Hostility: The Representation of Palestinians in Israeli Schoolbooks

What Isn’t Taught in Israeli Schools

 

[jakelafortParticipant]

Enco, good vid. While i think he is correct that jealousy plays a part in the hatred it is an unsatisfactory or incomplete explanation. There are a number of writers who have tackled this issue of Why Jews are hated so intensely and for so long including Mark Twain. I think it is universally accepted that the Christian message that was inculcated ad nauseum “Who killed Christ? The Jews killed Christ.”, plays a big part in antisemitism. A quotidian message of hatred from the most respected authority on reality/morality has the tintinnabulation and imprimatur of other sacred beliefs.

While Islam is not kindly disposed to Jews there have been periods of relative tranquility where Jews were the minority in Arab/Muslim countries and were not persecuted nearly as severely as they were throughout Christendom. Unfortunately Arab countries today are engaged in institutionalized antisemitism. The citizens we see today going hog wild in the Arab countries is utterly predictable and consistent with the brainwashing policies of those nations. And the long legs of AJ hatred will continue to be a factor almost anywhere on the planet. Laos probably not!

The other thing that nobody to my knowledge says and that i cant prove is that Christ being a Jew and the Jews seeing him as no more than a reformer/rabble rouser of the temple irks Christians. In other words if Christ is the shit who are these fuckers to reject him when he is one of their own? And perhaps their rejection of JC creates doubts that are uncomfortable.

The woop de doo of Christian Evangelicals supporting Israel is an accident of religion. It is just curious that traditional enemy becomes friend. The tough question for me is understanding how the far left became such AJ haters and how they’ve abandoned liberal principles in their hatred of Jews or for that matter anyone who offers a contrary message. The double standard. The microscope/telescope. Feminists banning Jewish speakers. Antisemitism in ivy league schools. There used to be quotas to limit the number of Jews admitted to schools like Harvard.

I have hunches but i dont really know. One thing i am convinced, the majority of humans, educated or not are followers and easily led. The susceptibility to ideology is so strong and it causes or is created by a failure to apply that level of ratiocination reserved for all other matters to one’s pet love or cherished beliefs.

[UnseenParticipant]

Israel has, perhaps, a bigger problem than even Hamas. It may beon the brink of civil war. The dismal performance of Netanyahu’s intelligence service places him in such a weak position that a movement even more to the right than him may see this as the best time to strike.

They are so extreme that there may be no limit to what they would do if in control. If you think Israel’s gloves are off now in Gaza,…

[_Robert_Participant]

Can’t fix this if people are worshiping myths. Isra-El literally means “preserving El”. This is ironic since El was the Canaanite boss god from before Israel became a thing. The people who eventually became the Jewish tribe started as a polytheistic Canaanite tribe that simply favored El’s son, Yahweh. When the monotheistic ancient Persians took over the area; monotheism became the fad.

The old testament even has verses where Yahweh says you knew me as El before, but I am actually Yahweh.

Exodus 6:2-3 God spoke further to Moses and said to him, “I am Yahweh; and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as El Shaddai, but by my name, Yahweh, I did not make myself known to them.

Of course, Jewish and (mainly) Christian apologists conflated the actual god ‘El’ with the generic word “god”, so it seems like the god of Abraham was always top dog, and thus the scriptures have been intentionally mis-translated.

Five minutes of research into the earliest reference to Yahweh is all it takes to destroy the Abrahamic religions and the source of all this strife.

[jakelafortParticipant]

WIN/Gallup International: Israel one of least religious countries
63 percent of respondents across the globe identified themselves as religious.
in Israel 65% “said that they are either not religious or convinced atheists, compared to just 30% who say that they are religious,” WIN/Gallup International reported.

63 percent across glove identified as religious? Woo! Free market of ideas is slicing and dicing idiocy.

[_Robert_Participant]

jakelafort wrote:

WIN/Gallup International: Israel one of least religious countries 63 percent of respondents across the globe identified themselves as religious. in Israel 65% “said that they are either not religious or convinced atheists, compared to just 30% who say that they are religious,” WIN/Gallup International reported. 63 percent across glove identified as religious? Woo! Free market of ideas is slicing and dicing idiocy.

This is a good thing, however being “non-religious” means very little, especially if the religious ceremony involved is demanding. I am curious about what percentage are true non-believers. I would be surprised if it was more than 30%.

Of course, most Arab states are theocracies so there is no comparison there. Nationalism is another ideology that is nearly as dangerous and probably preconditioned by religious thought. I think Israel would score pretty high on nationalism because of a history of persecution and Zionism, however not all Zionism is Religious Zionism

[UnseenParticipant]

Jake, I’m wondering if you have some sort of personal or family connection to Israel. Israel is far from what it’s called by American politicians, “The lone democracy in the Middle East.” It’s not a real democracy committed to equality, colorblind administration, and with a strong legal system committed to egalitarian justice.

It’s a state committed to forever being a majority Jewish country but with a Jewish population that’s not having children at a replacement rate, which its Palestinian “citizens” are. All things being equal, it can’t be a majority Jewish state without getting rid of Palestinians or by increasing a Jewish immigration which doesn’t seem to be happening, and can only be a stopgap anyway.

Instead, it’s a country founded on racism (“A country for Jews”?) that is led, especially now, by a militaristic fascist who wants to rein in what little remains of Israeli judicial independence and power. And due to his administration’s catastrophic intelligence failure, which allowed the current situation to explode, he could soon be replaced by someone who will make the government even more repressive and apartheid.

So, tell me, why does the United States ignore all this and blindly support Israel at every turn despite its well-documented human rights transgressions?

Israel. 50 Years of Occupation Abuses

Of course, we’re not very good at choosing admirable friends as it is. Saudi Arabia? Are you kidding me? Ditto for several other Arab states, The Philippines, and Ukraine, which prior to the invasion was regarded as the most corrupt country in Europe.

Why do you support Israel so vehemently? It almost seems like you have a connection to the country. Your commitment seems to go beyond the merely intellectual.

Yanis Varoufakis, generally thought of as a clear thinker, says he can’t justify Hamas’s attack, but he can’t criticize it, either. It’s the result of Israel’s humiliation and repression of the Palestinians, the many war crimes committed against them, and the way so many of us, and our governments, turn a blind eye to it all and effectively abet Israel’s crimes.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Robert wrote:

This is a good thing, however being “non-religious” means very little, especially if the religious ceremony involved is demanding. I am curious about what percentage are true non-believers. I would be surprised if it was more than 30%.

Of course, most Arab states are theocracies so there is no comparison there. Nationalism is another ideology that is nearly as dangerous and probably preconditioned by religious thought. I think Israel would score pretty high on nationalism because of a history of persecution and Zionism, however not all Zionism is Religious Zionism

I would expect that if you just polled Jewish Israelis and you left out the hard core orthodox group that it would be at least 50 percent atheists. Unfortunately there as here the religious groups have way too much influence.

Agreed on nationalism.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Unseen i am wondering if you have some sort of connection to controversy. I don’t believe in your heart of hearts you become fixated on a position and bolster that position with ideological, scatalogical, tendentious ethnological, unbalanced and illogical.

I don’t understand the Parisians.

[UnseenParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

Unseen i am wondering if you have some sort of connection to controversy. I don’t believe in your heart of hearts you become fixated on a position and bolster that position with ideological, scatalogical, tendentious ethnological, unbalanced and illogical. I don’t understand the Parisians.

My connection is almost always to making sure “the other side” gets its due by comparison with the usual, widely accepted, “normal” viewof things.

I’m not the one who’s being illogical, unless you can point out the illogic. This appears to be a myth you’ve built up in your mind as a defense against staring cold hard facts in the face. I share my “illogical” views on Israel’s regime with some of the most respected thinkers and organizations on Earth. To wit:

Human Rights Watch: This international non-governmental organization has issued numerous reports and statements critical of Israeli policies in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, as well as regarding Palestinian citizens of Israel.

Amnesty International: Amnesty International has also criticized Israel’s policies and actions in the occupied territories and has called for the end of the blockade in Gaza.

B’Tselem: B’Tselem is an Israeli human rights organization that has been vocal about the treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, emphasizing the impact of Israel’s occupation.

Jewish Voice for Peace: This U.S.-based organization is critical of Israeli policies and advocates for a just and lasting peace between Israelis and Palestinians.

Noam Chomsky: A renowned linguist, philosopher, and political commentator, Noam Chomsky has been a vocal critic of Israeli policies and U.S. support for Israel.

Norman Finkelstein: An academic and author, Finkelstein has written extensively on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and has been critical of Israeli policies and their impact on Palestinians.

Rashid Khalidi: A Palestinian-American historian and academic, Khalidi has written numerous books critical of Israeli policies and the U.S.-Israel relationship.

Ilan Pappé: An Israeli historian and professor, Pappé has been critical of Israel’s actions and policies, particularly regarding the displacement of Palestinians during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.

Palestinian Human Rights Organizations: Various Palestinian human rights organizations, such as Al-Haq and the Palestinian Center for Human Rights, document and report on human rights violations in the occupied territories.

I don’t know how you can continue to be so blind to the fact that Israel seems to exist to persecute Palestinians.

[Author]

Posts