Woke Movies
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July 13, 2023 at 10:37 pm #49208
UnseenParticipantI accept trans people generally. I support them totally as far as getting jobs and getting access to shelter. However, I do not accept a man is a woman simply because he tells me he is anymore than Trump can declassify documents by “just thinking about it.” Get the operation, then you have become a woman. Just throwing on a housecoat or a little black dress doesn’t make anyone a woman if there’s a penis underneath and I think that’s probably the most common view held by the public. And it’s not irrational. If you think it is, where’s your proof?
I’ll fight for your right to say whatever you want to say about your gender but words don’t change worldly facts into something they aren’t and I don’t have to agree with you.
You know, about three or so decades ago there was a “thing” now called “false memory syndrome” where grown ups, mostly women, with the help of opportunistic and/or gullible therapists “recovered” memories of childhood sexual abuse and/or satanic rituals. Stuff that it was often provable never happened. In retrospect, it’s now an interval the therapeutic, counseling, and advocacy fields would like to forget, though it’s important not to.
I’m thinking that with so many kids now doubting their birth gender whether we will also look back on this period as one the therapy, counseling, and advocacy fields would also rather forget. I think we need to entertain the idea that it’s mass hysteria. It sure feels that way to me. How could evolution fuck up so badly? Well, I don’t think it takes Mother Nature to fuck things up. For that you need people ready to believe anything and wanting to believe something revolutionary and shocking because they want to be at the leading/bleeding edge.
July 14, 2023 at 6:05 am #49209
PopeBeanieModeratorLiberals practically handed them the keys. So busy focusing on superficial suppression and political correctness that millions of people are looking for an authoritarian to come out and center it all.
There’s a pernicious doggedness to resisting the notion that there exists more than one way of looking at things which hinders the free exchange of ideas and further divides society. Is it any wonder that the price we are paying for wokeism is a more deeply divided society than ever?
Well yeah, I wonder. Here’s what I don’t get, yet. Blaming progressives for causing the conservative’s inner monsters to come out swinging and destroying what used to work for us, including democracy. Personally, as a progressive, I never would have guessed that this, current day division and broken communications would be the result, and I’m pretty sure most wokesters would have pulled back had they known their actions would be like pouring fuel on fires from hell. They didn’t bring this level of hell to our country on purpose.
Historically, racism and other means of the more powerful people maintaining unequal rights were the default, and some of the milder forms of wokeness only want to allow that history to be taught in schools. WRT “freedom of speech”, even that kind of American history lesson is being snuffed.
There’s something else missing or pushed out, when blame and outrage keep sucking up all the oxygen. (I don’t know what a real working solution might be. Can two-way empathy ever play a part in it?)
July 14, 2023 at 12:55 pm #49210
_Robert_ParticipantWell Pope, when I try to see it from a conservative xtian viewpoint it’s pretty easy to see where they are coming from. Both sides, left and right live in an echo chamber. I truly thought unseen was being swayed by the right-wing media fanatics, but now I think he is just trying to see the other side. I don’t see any other way out of this.
It’s like Bill Maher. He infuriated me during the pandemic. I have periodic bouts with chronic bronchitis and was pretty sure if I caught C19, pre vaccine, I’d probably die. There he was, a supposed liberal, weekly belittling mask wearers. He regularly books conservatives on his show. But he gets people talking in an intellectual and civil manner. Do you think there is another solution to fix such a divided country? I never really just joined in on the party line before but recently that’s what I was doing. Each issue needs evaluation and understanding of the opposing views no matter how fucking idiotic they may be.
MTG is an obvious moron. But what is it about her that so many people see, enough to vote her in? I wanna understand, no matter how disgusting it is. That is how liberals can prevail in the long run.
July 14, 2023 at 2:52 pm #49211
jakelafortParticipantThat’s what i was going on about. Human nature. Ideologues. It is in our nature. Beliefs, beliefs, beliefs. Echo chambers are the perfect medium to advance the pernicious and vicious along with meretricious and capricious. Free marketplace of ideas is a god damn stupid notion. I knew it as a child. It takes very little reflection to refute it. So i toot it. The world moots it. Disputes it. Endorses it.
There is no solution. It is mind pollution.
July 14, 2023 at 3:42 pm #49212
UnseenParticipantHow wokeism will doom the writers and actors strikes in Hollywood. Hollywood is already over the barrel from its disastrous period of bending over backward (or forward, depending on how you view it) to wokeist demands for excessive diversity.
This video doesn’t refer to wokeism specifically. It just refers to the downturn in the video/movie industries, but the public’s lack of interest has a lot to do with the effects of wokeism. It starts with an ad about 25 seconds long so either be patient or move the slider and the poster explains why the unions’ demands are doomed to go nowhere.
July 14, 2023 at 4:19 pm #49214
UnseenParticipantYes, guys, it’s true that what we call “wokeness” now has its roots. To Kill A Mockingbird, Guess Who’s Coming To Dinner, several Star Trek episodes, etc.
However, wokeism is new. I’ve defined it as “a system of thought and behavior characterized by intolerance of free expression, policing the speech of others, enforcing approved beliefs through boycotts and denunciations, and proving one’s own superiority to oneself by denouncing the supposed dogmatic shortcomings of others. There’s a pernicious doggedness to resisting the notion that there exists more than one way of looking at things which hinders the free exchange of ideas and further divides society.”
I think true wokeism started when people started correcting others’ diction (in its sense as word choice, not pronunciation): “Don’t say negro or colored, say black,” “Don’t say retarded, say intellectually challenged (or whatever the right word is nowadays),” and I’m not recommending we go back to using negro, colored, or retarded. That’s not the point. The point is the presumption of a right to police other people’s language on behalf of people not even in the conversation.
In other words, it goes way beyond presenting challenging ideas about race, gender, people with the various challenges, etc., to being preachy and proposing and taking direct action to damage or ruin those seen as outside the dogma.
Invite Camille Paglia to speak, or a representative of the Israeli government, or even a mainstream (not MAGA) conservative, and self-righteous students and even faculty will raise a ruckus until, sometimes, their talks have to be cancelled.
The wokeists operate off a kind of figuative Little Red Book and if someone says something contrary to the dogma in the book, they do so at their own risk.
That is the difference between the roots of wokeism and what we today call “woke” or “wokeism.”
July 14, 2023 at 4:32 pm #49216
UnseenParticipantWell yeah, I wonder. Here’s what I don’t get, yet. Blaming progressives for causing the conservative’s inner monsters to come out swinging and destroying what used to work for us, including democracy. Personally, as a progressive, I never would have guessed that this, current day division and broken communications would be the result,
Probably because narcissists don’t think about consequences when they are sure they are warriors for what’s right and just. They also presume people who don’t agree with their dogma to be lesser beings one need not take account of.
July 14, 2023 at 5:26 pm #49219
NoelParticipantProbably because narcissists don’t think about consequences when they are sure they are warriors for what’s right and just. They also presume people who don’t agree with their dogma to be lesser beings one need not take account of.
Wow! How to unpack that?
Is it narcissistic to want to be treated equally?
Is it narcissistic to want to be able to make decisions about your own body?
Is it narcissistic to want the same opportunities afforded others?
Is it narcissistic to be LGBQT+ and want acceptance into the community?
Is it narcissistic to not have to follow different rules than others?
Is it narcissistic to worship or not worship and not be chastised for your decision?
Is there even such as thing as an American dream that’s inclusive of everyone?
Atheist. Our community of skeptics are considered a minority by the religious powers that be and by the entire population in general. We don’t have a voice in government. There is no one that speaks to our concerns. Proclaiming that you’re an atheist in government is akin to committing hari kari on the Capitol steps. We have no representation.
We are most of those people that we label “narcissist”. Unless we hitch our wagon to one political party or other but then we run the fear of having to use different labels. We leave our convictions to the wayside and follow the majority. If we as atheist ever grow a set and speak out to the unfairness of it all we, as outlined on this FSM thread, are labeled WOKE. Like it’s suppose to be some kind of curse word. Do we ever listen to ourselves or is it just turrets and impulse?
July 14, 2023 at 6:29 pm #49220
UnseenParticipantIs it narcissistic to want to be treated equally?
Absolutely not, but wokeists almost invariable are not speaking for themselves, they are speaking for other who (who knows?) may not even agree with their position. There are gay Republicans and gays and lesbians who think the trans thing is going too far (or too fast).
Is it narcissistic to want to be able to make decisions about your own body?
You miss the point of what wokeism is: A system of thought and behavior characterized by intolerance of free expression, policing the speech of others, enforcing approved beliefs through boycotts and denunciations, and proving one’s own superiority to oneself by denouncing the supposed dogmatic shortcomings of others. There’s a pernicious doggedness to resisting the notion that there exists more than one way of looking at things which hinders the free exchange of ideas and further divides society. And I might add, they are almost always speaking not for themselves but for someone not even in the conversation.
Is it narcissistic to want the same opportunities afforded others?
What is narcissistic is the self-appointed advocate aspect. People in need of help can find advocates on their own…or be their own advocates in many cases.
Is it narcissistic to be LGBQT+ and want acceptance into the community?
Who said it was? The narcissists aren’t the LGBTQ folks. It’s the self-appointees with their Little Red Book who take on the savior mantle,
Is it narcissistic to not have to follow different rules than others?
That’s a poorly drafted sentence, kind of a double negative. But you’re asking isn’t it okay for people to follow different rules…I think? It totally depends on the rules, obviously.
Is it narcissistic to worship or not worship and not be chastised for your decision?
Once again, wokeists habitually inject themselves into situations and conversations on behalf of others and without obtaining the others’ assent. Here are two perfect examples. A wokeist will correct you if you call Native Americans “Indians.” Did you know that a lot of Indians don’t really mind this. They call themselves something other than Native American or Indian anyway. Then, Katy Perry did a show once with a Japanese theme wearing a kimono. The wokeists were outraged at her “cultural appropriation” (a part of the lexicon of their Little Red Book) but when Japanese people were consulted, there was little outrage. Many took it as a tribute and thought it was “cool.”
Is there even such as thing as an American dream that’s inclusive of everyone? Atheist. Our community of skeptics are considered a minority by the religious powers that be and by the entire population in general. We don’t have a voice in government.
I have the vote, don’t you? Do you want us to have a majority voice even though we’re a small part of the population. Would that be a better system?
There is no one that speaks to our concerns.
Ever heard of the ACLU? Government isn’t just Congress and the Executive, you know. We have rights that I think (hope) will continue to be upheld in the Supreme Court because The Constitution is pretty clear on the main matters that concern us.
Proclaiming that you’re an atheist in government is akin to committing hari kari on the Capitol steps. We have no representation.
You don’t know that. Simply because a person in government isn’t “out” as an atheist, it doesn’t mean they aren’t looking out for us. I suspect as many as 90% of Democrats who go to a church or synagogue only go for appearances and are closet atheists, even if they haven’t admitted it to themselves.
We are most of those people that we label “narcissist”.
No, you have no case to make there. Most of us (shall I except you?) understand the multiplicity of opinions and respect the rights of others to have and express them. Some of us seem to want to make an exception for people with vaccine doubts, but otherwise…
Unless we hitch our wagon to one political party or other but then we run the fear of having to use different labels. We leave our convictions to the wayside and follow the majority. If we as atheist ever grow a set and speak out to the unfairness of it all we, as outlined on this FSM thread, are labeled WOKE. Like it’s suppose to be some kind of curse word. Do we ever listen to ourselves or is it just turrets and impulse?
You have learned nothing from the definition: Woke is a system of thought and behavior characterized by intolerance of free expression, policing the speech of others, enforcing approved beliefs through boycotts and denunciations, and proving one’s own superiority to oneself by denouncing the supposed dogmatic shortcomings of others. There’s a pernicious doggedness to resisting the notion that there exists more than one way of looking at things which hinders the free exchange of ideas and further divides society.
It’s fine to have liberal views and speak out when you see an unjustice, now go back and look at the definition again and I hope you’ll see where one leaves speaking out about what one believes and starts becoming an enforcer.
July 15, 2023 at 1:54 pm #49226
_Robert_ParticipantThis ‘word doctoring’ often used to soften reality, is problematic. The so-called “homeless problem” and sidewalk camps in big cities are really open-air drug/sex markets and the ‘homeless’ are mostly mentally ill and/or drug addicts. Their families finally got tired of them stealing from them and lying and threw them out. People always say there are housing shortages, but do they really want low-cost housing development on their street? Probably not.
So, the non-profits get funded to enable these people suffering in the street and there is no intervention. So, it goes on and on, the filth, the smells, the crime and the costs are immense. American people just die on the sidewalks.
July 15, 2023 at 5:00 pm #49227
NoelParticipantUnseen: Touche! You’ve convinced me, I’m WOKE. Better to keep my mouth shut and just let others speak for me.
Exhausted with this shit. But you do make some salient points and I have to give it to you. Thanks for the lesson.
July 15, 2023 at 5:49 pm #49228
UnseenParticipantThis ‘word doctoring’ often used to soften reality, is problematic. The so-called “homeless problem” and sidewalk camps in big cities are really open-air drug/sex markets and the ‘homeless’ are mostly mentally ill and/or drug addicts. Their families finally got tired of them stealing from them and lying and threw them out. People always say there are housing shortages, but do they really want low-cost housing development on their street? Probably not.
So, the non-profits get funded to enable these people suffering in the street and there is no intervention. So, it goes on and on, the filth, the smells, the crime and the costs are immense. American people just die on the sidewalks.
Minimizing real problems with soft language results in dubious “woke” programs designed to “help” people like this one which implicitly says, “You bring the drug, we’ll give you the paraphernalia”:
Multnomah County will give drug users tin foil, straws, glass pipes
Oregon decriminalized drugs in personal use quantities and it has, mistakenly in my view, been joined by programs that actually facilitate drug use. The effect here in my city of Portland, is that a city that was often at or top of the list of most livable cities now doesn’t even make the list. It was a city with streets so clean it was likened to streets in Scandinavian towns, free of cigarette butts, candy wrappers, and discarded soda cans.
Now, because it’s become a city full of sidewalk tents housing people who seemingly never clean up their area, the opposite is the case.
We have a lot of drug related crime as users try to find the money to buy the drugs the government is helping them use. So, the city could reduce crime if it became legal to give out the drugs in addition to the paraphernalia.
My daughter has invited me to move to Vegas to be with her, and I plan to do so before the year is out. Sad, because I used love Portland and to be very proud of it.
July 16, 2023 at 1:49 am #49229
NoelParticipantHey Unseen: Help a brother out here:
Can I refer to the 1619 project for history of slavery? What? Too Woke.It’s been explained to me that the words Slave and Plantation are no longer acceptable and enslaved person and slave labor camp should be used instead. Slave can be used as an adjective but not a noun.
Is the word Holocaust still acceptable to use when describing Hitler and Nazi Germany’s extermination of six million Jews? Is Holocaust too Woke? No good?
Thanks, appreciate you.
July 16, 2023 at 5:29 am #49230
TheEncogitationerParticipantNoel,
It is certainly not wrong to study and to speak against injustice against anyone, including injustice on the grounds of immutable traits.
Where Wokeism goes wrong is assuming that individuals living today in American and Western society either bare victimhood or bear guilt for injustices committed by and against individuals long since dead.
Wokeism also goes wrong in it’s Neo-Marxist Frankfort School notion that everything in society is a power relationship and power struggle between “the privileged” vs. “the oppressed,” that anything bad that happens to “the oppressed” is automatically “disparate impact” created by “the privileged.” In fact, many factors go into both outcomes of success and failure, as Sociologist and Economist Thomas Sowell has written about in many volumes.
For more credible reading about slavery and the slave trade than the 1619 Project, there is Basil Davidson’s The African Slave Trade and Lerone Bennett’s Before the Mayflower. Both show that African chattel slavery went back further than 1619 and wasn’t just practiced by Europeans.
For every African Animist bought by a European Christian, there was usually a Arab Muslim broker who did the selling and an African Animist King who captured the slave in tribal warfare. The indigenous tribes of North America not only enslaved each other as spoils of tribal war, but also bought and held African slaves from Europeans.
There were very few clean hands innocent of slavery in ancient times and in some Third World nations and in Red China, chattel and systemic slavery still exist. We should all be glad that what Frederick Douglass called the “foul, haggard, damning scourge” of chattel slavery is no longer among us here in the U.S.A. Rational minds can keep all this together in the head just fine.
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July 16, 2023 at 10:57 am #49233
DavisParticipantIt just saddens me that many people here, who are otherwise progressive, tolerant and thoughtful, seem so “hard done by” at the face of demonstrably harmed people speak out about their struggles and are characterised as “woke people” and how they “go wrong”. I play on an ice hockey team in Edinburgh, filled mostly with working class construction workers who are more understanding and supportive.
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