Atheism and Spirituality

[DavisParticipant]

So to keep to buy original example about the soul, I think there are both physical and spiritual aspects of our being

Yeah well what does spiritual mean? What do you mean by this statement? I cannot understand it. Please elaborate

 atheists fully understand and the lens through which we describe what we think we know depends upon our world view.

Your post-modernesque attempt to drive down conversation by claiming its “a point of view” or based on a world view etc isn’t going to work here. It’s either we go objective or we blab out whatever point-of-view we have only hoping that someone will take us seriously depending on their point-of-view…and again…I don’t think anyone here is going to go with the latter option.

But that’s because you come to the table already having had made up your mind.

And this is why I find it extremely difficult to see how you could be a researcher in an empirical field. If you did then you’d realize how pointless and embarrassing it is to claim “we’ve already made up our minds” with a group of humanist rational empiricists. Zheesh

Don’t you call that confirmation bias?

No…that is absolutely not confirmation bias. Not even close.

Did it ever occur to you that atheists posit their worldview upon a confirmation bias as well?

Ehhh. Well I’d say those atheists prone to confirmation bias just might do that. But then those who don’t…then they likely don’t do that. In any case, what are you on about with world views? A world view must always be finally accepted by a person based on some subjective reason. That reason doesn’t have to be confirmation bias.

The flipside can be true for a theist.

I’d say, to be honest, the flip side is more the case for theists. Because some theists are in a cultural/historical/familiar/peer-based/religious enviroment where it can be nearly impossible or extremely difficult to have any other world view at all. While the overwealming majority of atheists (and most certainly nearly all humanist) can very easily change their world view based on whatever reason the want. And no, it doesn’t have to be confirmation bias. If anything, humanists usually have more experience (via critical thinking and exposing themselves to knowledge about other cultures and philosophical ideas through the ages and around the world) with trying to see the world through the eyes of those with different world views. This is something a lot less common among theists.

• This reply was modified 7 months, 1 week ago by  Davis.

[DavisParticipant]

…cherry pick and twist my words. You’re really good at that

We have an expression in Spanish (…lo dijo Blas…). It refers to any situation where someone cries “foul” but in reality that person is as guilty or flagrantly drippingly guilty of the very thing they’re complaining someone else does.

…cherry pick and twist my words. You’re really good at that

Lo dijo Blas.

[IvyParticipant]

@davis

Cada uno habla de la feria segun le va en ella.

[IvyParticipant]

RE: If you did then you’d realize how pointless and embarrassing it is to claim “we’ve already made up our minds” with a group of humanist rational empiricists. Zheesh

You “claim” that you’re SOOOO “open minded” and “willing to examine the evidence….” and willing to engage in honest conversation.

I’ve been around long enough to see through the facade. It’s not true. Here’s another dicho for you: Actions speak louder than words

[IvyParticipant]

@davis

Lo dijo Blas.

Did you actually read what I wrote?

[IvyParticipant]

@davis

Yeah well what does spiritual mean? What do you mean by this statement? I cannot understand it. Please elaborate

I already gave one example when I was talking to Reg about the recommendation I received from a medical doctor (a physiatrist to be exact).

[IvyParticipant]

@davis

If anything, humanists usually have more experience (via critical thinking and exposing themselves to knowledge about other cultures and philosophical ideas through the ages and around the world) with trying to see the world through the eyes of those with different world views.

That’s what you tell yourself. You can go ahead and believe that. But in REALITY, you come across as VERY close minded. That’s why at the slightest mention of any word like “spiritual” and you get all academic/textbook/“what do you mean by spiritual?”/“are you SURE that’s the word you meant to use?” esque…

bravo.

You are SO cultured.

You get a gold star ⭐️ 😂

why does the word spiritual bother you so much?

[IvyParticipant]

Arrieros somos y en el camino andamos.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Ivy wrote:

I think there are both physical and spiritual aspects of our being

For me, they’re one and the same thing: spirituality (1: improved well-being; 2: connection with something greater) is accessed through physical actions (1: putting the right conditions in place; 2: appropriate activities).

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

improved well-being

That would be “general well-being” in the form of emotional and physical well-being together with better prospects for the future.

The Buddhist monk that I know talks about “bio-social-psycho” aspects, meaning physical, psychological and social well-being.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

@davis – we can give you definitions til we’re blue in the face, but you will probably continue to ignore them.  For example: The Spiritual Soldier

[UnseenParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

@davis – we can give you definitions til we’re blue in the face, but you will probably continue to ignore them.  For example: The Spiritual Soldier

From that article: “I relaxed my opposition to spirituality after reading George Vallaint’s (2008) “Spiritual evolution.” I summarized his position as that it is the experience of positive emotions that deserves to be called spiritual. A spiritual person is someone who is capable of experiencing joy in play, forgiveness after having been wronged, compassion with others who have been derailed, awe when in communion with others or the splendor of nature.”

I’m still left with why do people insist upon the word “spiritual”? The article gets me no closer to the answer. Even some of the other meanings/uses of “spirit” don’t help. “School spirit” and “He put up a spirited defense” don’t help.

Why does it have to be that word?

 

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Unseen wrote:

Why does it have to be that word?

That’s a good point, and I don’t know the answer entirely.  I think it’s linked to the word “inspire”.

Spirit:

1. the non-physical part of a person which is the seat of emotions and character; the soul.
2. the prevailing or typical quality, mood, or attitude of a person, group, or period of time.
   “I hope the team will build on this spirit of confidence”
   synonyms: ethos, prevailing tendency, motivating force, animating principle, dominating characteristic, essence, quintessence.

inspire

1. fill (someone) with the urge or ability to do or feel something, especially to do something creative.  Synonyms: stimulate, motivate, cause, incline, persuade, encourage, influence, rouse, move, stir, spur (on), goad, energize, galvanize, incite, impel; animate, fire the imagination of, fire with enthusiasm; create (a feeling, especially a positive one) in a person; arouse, awaken, prompt, cause, induce, ignite, trigger, kindle, produce, generate, bring out, bring about, give rise to, sow the seeds of;
2. breathe in (air); inhale.

So if “spirit” is something like someone’s animating principle or motivating force (which is there because of evolution), “spirituality” is working with this principle: that’s the “well-being” sense of the word.

spirituality

• the quality of being concerned with the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

Spirituality is a broad concept with room for many perspectives. In general, it includes a sense of connection to something bigger than ourselves, and it typically involves a search for meaning in life. As such, it is a universal human experience—something that touches us all.

“Meaning” in an emotional sense is the way that something promotes or hinders our thriving / surviving / reproducing.  “Meaning” also means “signifying”.  The two definitions can go together.

[DavisParticipant]

@davis – we can give you definitions til we’re blue in the face, but you will probably continue to ignore them.

That’s because you rarely give a definition that actually describes things in meaningful ways. They are full of weasel words, vagueries, subject avoiding, non-committal references and basically ever device imaginable to avoid making any statement or claim in which we can possible verify, respond to, and let alone challenge. We could keep telling you this again and again until there are no longer any digits or characters left to type and you’ll keep spouting out definitions (and sometimes theories) that are brain reveries and wanderings of the mind rather than arguments.

[DavisParticipant]

the quality of being concerned with the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

Yeah you’ve just defined something referring to two other things that are extremely vaguely defined. “The human spirit”? Sounds like an enormous box where you put everything that’s difficult to sum upto words. “Soul”. I think there are about 1,000 different definitions for that…and as Reg always says, we really need to know which one. A fairly big problem is that your definitions about soul and spirit are ever changing, and it often depends on which author you have recently read who you admire. I think the most recent one being Peterson who is the supreme Ayatolah of evading the writing of a clear statement. I cannot wait one day to truly understand what on Earth you mean by your spirituality.

• This reply was modified 7 months, 1 week ago by  Davis.

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