Sunday School

[StregaModerator]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

The last time Catholic priests and nuns in Ireland saw a Barbie or Ken was in a police station when they were being asked to point out “where did you touch the child”?

Wow, that’s some amazing slicing with those words, Reg. *tips hat*

[_Robert_Participant]

Strega wrote:

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

The last time Catholic priests and nuns in Ireland saw a Barbie or Ken was in a police station when they were being asked to point out “where did you touch the child”?

Wow, that’s some amazing slicing with those words, Reg. *tips hat*

Agree. Yet way too many never even got booked for their crimes against humanity.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Wow, that’s some amazing slicing with those words, Reg. *tips hat*

I surprised myself with how polite and restrained my words were 🙂

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg and Strega,

That’s more than a slice! That is a buuuurn!!!
😁

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Fellow Unbelievers,

Fatal shootings increased as GOP abolished gun Safety Laws.

I know that no minds are ever changed by conversation on this subject, but the thinking and argument behind this article is just absolutely junky!

It no surprise that there was ever talk about Congress bailing out dead-tree newspapers with crappy thinking and argument like this! Fish would loath to be wrapped in this as their final funeral shroud!

The article is saying that the loosening of Tennessee gun laws–specifically laws against carrying in vehicles, laws against carrying in parks, and laws against carrying in public without safety training and background checks–has led to an increase in deadly shootings.

Well, if that is the case, wouldn’t this also be the case in other States that did the same thing? The article doesn’t even bother exploring that.

And wouldn’t States that never had those laws in the first place–such as Vermont and New Hampshire–be absolutely overwhelmed with fatal shootings? Again, the article doesn’t even bother looking to see the experience of Vermont and New Hampshire.

Here are the actual figures on gun violence by State. Observe the number of murders and the per capita rate for Vermont and New Hampshire versus either Tennessee or other States with very strict gun control laws such as New York, Illinois, and California.

Gun Violence inthe United States by State–Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

And right in the middle of the article but completely overlooked is a more likely contributor of fatal shootings that gun laws don’t address and which gun laws may actually aggravate. The article states that:

Since these laws were enacted, law enforcement has tracked an astronomical rise in gun thefts from vehicles. In Nashville and Memphis, for example, gun thefts have increased over 500 percent in just a decade.

TBI says<https://tnunderthegun.wixsite.com/tn-under-the-gun/guns-in-trunks&gt; at least 5,347 firearms were stolen out of vehicles statewide in 2022 and nearly 4,900 were stolen from vehicles statewide the year before.

In the first place, around 90 percent of guns used in the commission of crimes are stolen guns and gun thefts happen regardless of restrictions on gun ownership and gun carry. Cracking down on gun theft rather than blaming the carrying of guns and effectively blaming the victims of gun theft would address the problem much better.

Two, if there is no requirement for permits or licenses to carry openly or concealed, there is no public record of who has guns or where they live and thus less information for gun thieves to use to the advantage of their thefts.

And in the articles myopic, reductionistic focus on guns, it forgets all the other factors that can contribute to crime and also fails to put the actual occurance of crime in it’s proper perspcetive:

These 5 states have the highest risk of a mass school shooting, according to a new study
Story by Korin Miller o2d
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/these-5-states-have-the-highest-risk-of-a-mass-school-shooting-according-to-a-new-study/ar-AA1fCEYn

Notice that 3 of the States have very strict laws on guns and, of course, none of them are Vermont or New aHampshire.

I have to give the anonymous author of this Tennessee Tribune an F-. You shot your eyes out with that one, kid.
👨‍🏫🚸🎒

[UnseenParticipant]

@Enco

I’ve been waiting forever for proof that lax gun laws reduce gun deaths. Waiting…waiting…waiting.

On the other hand, if you look at the states by the laxity/strictness of their gun laws, it looks bad for anyone who thinks more guns on the street makes anyone more secure.

Now, unless you have some creative interpretation of this map, the places with the highest death by gun rates sure look to me like gun-hugger heavens where people buy into the nonsense that more guns on the street makes everyone safer. Washington, New York, and California, for example have stricter gun laws whereas states like Arkansas, Mississippi, and Wyoming have very high rates of gun mortality.

I’m not going to comment point-by-point on your lengthy screed, but regarding your point that “around 90 percent of guns used in the commission of crimes are stolen guns and gun thefts happen regardless of restrictions on gun ownership and gun carry,” there would be fewer gun thefts if the thieves had to work harder to find guns to steal.

Just like auto deaths, if you cut the number of instruments of death, you will cut the number of deaths.

Gun-huggers like to argue, that you can kill people with a knife, too. However, the Las Vegas massacre with 60+ dead and 200+ surviving being shot would be awfully hard to do with any kind of knife. And if you go into a classroom with a knife, how would that work? “Line up so I can stab you one-by-one and nobody leave the room while I’m doing it”?

The rest of the world looks at us like we’re idiots when it comes to guns…

And we are.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  Unseen.

[StregaModerator]

@unseen yes, very true about non-Americans confusion over Americans obsessions with guns.

It’s possible that in the US, there’s a correlation with gun ownership and mistrust of government. I’ve heard many Americans assert that they keep their guns for protection. Against the government, and against armed lunatic individuals who are planning to assault them.

It seems the common denominator is fear. Fear and maybe a lack of control over their own destinies.

You would think that some kind of earth shattering event would eventually bring these gun aficionados round to considering gun restrictions – however, it’s hard to see an earth shattering event that’s more earth shattering than a school shooting could be – but even that has passed the frequency level of being newsworthy for more than a day.

In order to tackle the gun problem, I believe the fear problem needs addressing first.

And that’s a whole other ball game.

[UnseenParticipant]

@strega

however, it’s hard to see an earth shattering event that’s more earth shattering than a school shooting could be – but even that has passed the frequency level of being newsworthy for more than a day.

School shootings are dreadful, and as headline-making as they are, they are rare enough that the average parent and child shouldn’t become obsessed with the idea it’s going to happen to them. They are not the big problem, which is the sheer quantity of guns out there on the American streets.

The ultimate solution is the repeal of the 2nd Amendment which would allow for more supervision of guns. Unfortunately, don’t hold your breath on that one at least in OUR lifetimes. And with Trump’s packing of the Supreme Court in order to curry favor with his base of numbnutz yahoo MAGAheads, don’t expect any favorable rulings anytime soon, either.

 

 

[StregaModerator]

I don’t believe you need to repeal the Second Amendment. You could just clarify exactly what a well regulated militia is, and require States to adhere to the specific definition.

If you’re over 21 you can have a gun, carry a current license showing you passed a proficiency test and have your ownership details listed on a National database. Oh and maybe you carry liability insurance on the gun.

[UnseenParticipant]

Strega wrote:

I don’t believe you need to repeal the Second Amendment. You could just clarify exactly what a well regulated militia is, and require States to adhere to the specific definition.

You might as well repeal it since there are only two ways to amend the constitution,* neither one having a ghost of a chance of ever happening in the lifetime of anyone alive now.

* Under Article V of the Constitution, there are two ways to propose and ratify amendments to the Constitution. To propose amendments, two-thirds of both houses of Congress can vote to propose an amendment, or two-thirds of the state legislatures can ask Congress to call a national convention to propose amendments. To ratify amendments, three-fourths of the state legislatures must approve them, or ratifying conventions in three-fourths of the states must approve them. (source)

• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  Unseen.

[StregaModerator]

@unseen funnily enough, the California Governor is literally trying to garnish enough support for a constitutional change regarding guns. Gavin Newsom.

Might see him running in 2028 for POTUS. You never know.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Strega,

I haven’t forgotten you. I’ll address what you have brought up later.

[jakelafortParticipant]

A well regulated militia is an anachronism and it demonstrates a lack of imagination and foresight.

[_Robert_Participant]

Let’s see this weekend so far, I have heard the well- regulated militia has conducted a mass shooting in a Dollar Tree, 7 injured in shooting at Boston Caribbean carnival celebration and a 12-year-old, 2 adults seriously injured in Fayetteville shooting. We truly are a nation chock full of morons.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Strega,

yes, very true about non-Americans confusion over Americans obsessions with guns.

It’s possible that in the US, there’s a correlation with gun ownership and mistrust of government. I’ve heard many Americans assert that they keep their guns for protection. Against the government, and against armed lunatic individuals who are planning to assault them.

It seems the common denominator is fear. Fear and maybe a lack of control over their own destinies.

Yes, there is such a correlation. A Cliff’s Notes of the history of the Twentieth Century alone would make this a well-founded rational fear. The rest of human history would also be a big exclamation point.

You would think that some kind of earth shattering event would eventually bring these gun aficionados round to considering gun restrictions – however, it’s hard to see an earth shattering event that’s more earth shattering than a school shooting could be – but even that has passed the frequency level of being newsworthy for more than a day.

Nope. Just another exclamation point.

In order to tackle the gun problem, I believe the fear problem needs addressing first.

And that’s a whole other ball game.

Fear, like any other emotion, is an evaluation of the relation of something to one’s self. Whether it is rational or not depends on the reality of that something.

Although unnatural death is very rare compared against natural death, it is far less rare than an inanimate, non-living, non-conscious, amoral object such as a gun acting on it’s own. Thus, fearing unnatural death takes primacy over fear of said inanimate objects and neither can be addressed but by both reason and action.

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