Sunday School

[.Spectator]

And if there is no God then why does our memtal health improve when we pray to one?

[.Spectator]

*mental

[.Spectator]

@Reg what is evidence to you? You cannot even define it so that I may provide it.

[.Spectator]

But I think the way we have evolved to believe in a God speaks volumes to God’s existence.

[.Spectator]

Belle just to be clear – there is no evidence in that book. It is all argument. I don’t know how you cannot understand the difference between the meaning of those 2 terms.

You can’t even define what you mean by evidence so how is anyone supposed to provide it?

[.Spectator]

Explain to me how it is that God spoke to me TWO TIMES that I was going to find my biological family when I did…..You still haven’t been able to explain it. A DNA test led me down the right path, but I came up against a brick wall for months in both cases….how is it that God told me each time that it was going to happen and then it did….explain that one.

[DavisModerator]

Belle Rose wrote:

And if there is no God then why does our memtal health improve when we pray to one?

Well…actually, we do know why. First though, this is a bad argument. Some religious practices are naturally good for us. For example Siberian folk religions frown upon salt consumption and that most of it should be sacraficed. So they don’t eat a lot of salt and burn highly salty meat and other consumables. If you know any older people, then you know this diet is good for you. Now the fact that you are healthier isn’t because the God’s consume the smoke coming from the salt sacrifices and magically make you better (do you think they really do?) It’s because you shouldn’t have a lot of salt. Any moderately educated and rational person can work that out.

As it turns out with praying…who or what you pray to (including to no one) makes no difference. That means, praying to God asking him to protect you, communicating with a spirit asking for favors, meditating and having an internal dialogue with yourself asking yourself to remove bad habits…are all equally beneficial. The first two focus on a highly abstract human cultural construction, the last does not. What’s important is the introspective meditation involved in focusing the mind on one thing, relaxing and working out problems or being tankful for things. It is beneficial and has been demonstrated through double blind studies multiple times. But again, it’s not cause you do it to God and he answers your prayers (does he?). It’s because you’ve focused your mind and body in a particular activity. You benefit whether you pray, self meditate or just relax and let your mind wander. This goes pretty much the same with numerous physical, dietary and mental activities which happen to have been incorporated into religious activities (either on purpose, by coincidence or both). And it must be pointed out that it works both for beneficial activities that have been incorporated into religious rituals that are good for you as the ones which are bad for you. And I almost never hear someone say “then why did I develop a mental neurosis worrying about hell as a child” doesn’t that demonstrate god? No. Never heard that argument. We all know it is very easy to forget about the very bad ones and hide most of them under a mental carpet. It is much easier to point out the beneficial ones and them claim that religious ritual as their own…and therefore GOD!

• This reply was modified 7 years ago by  Davis.
• This reply was modified 7 years ago by  Davis.
• This reply was modified 7 years ago by  Davis.

[.Spectator]

@davis

As it turns out with praying…who or what you pray to (including to no one) makes no difference. That means, praying to God asking him to protect you, communicating with a spirit asking for favours, meditating and having an internal dialogue with yourself asking yourself to remove bad habits…are all equally beneficial. The introspective meditation involved in focusing the mind on one thing, relaxing and working out problems or being tankful for things…is beneficial. It’s been demonstrated multiple times. But again, it’s not cause you do it to God and he answers your prayers (does he?). It’s because you’ve focused your mind and body in a particular activity. You benefit whether you pray, self meditate or just relax and let your mind wander.

Yes exactly Davis. It comes down to one word. Dopamine. LOL….BUT my point is this: If there is no God then why have we evolved such that our mental health improves with involving an external agency? Name it whatever the fuck. Why didn’t we evolve to thrive as atheists if that is really the Truth? You know?

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Ok Belle, if you cannot distinguish personal opinion from evidence I am not prepared to continue debating with you. If you want to discuss your God then please discuss it with other Christians. There are too many ex-Christians here and they have no interest in reading about it. We do not believe you heard the voice of the Creator of the Universe. You may believe your heard his voice in your head but we don’t. You can email me privately if you wish to continue but it is too tedious to continue it here. There are people who specifically do not want to hear of it anymore.

We do not believe what you believe. We do not believe your God exists. We accept you believe it but this is a site for atheists. We do not believe that a god spoke to you. You can keeping arguing or claiming that he did but we will never believe you unless you can offer us evidence.

For the last time. Your arguments are not evidence. Your personal opinions are not evidence. You need to figure out that distinction for yourself. We have not evolved to believe in your God.

• This reply was modified 7 years ago by  Reg the Fronkey Farmer.

[DavisModerator]

Belle Rose wrote:

Yes exactly Davis. It comes down to one word. Dopamine.

It’s not just about dopamine. It’s a natural activity. Young babies and older people do it all the time without even trying to do it. Staring off into space for long chunks of time. Resting frequently. Becoming absent minded. And they aren’t praying to god when they do it and they aren’t doing anything at all complicated or mystical or magical. It’s as normal as sleeping or breathing…neither of which are incredible things.

Many animals also do it, especially animals and most especially domesticated ones with fewer worries or dangers. Dogs and cats frequently relax and stare into space and spend a while not obsessing over food or prey or dangers or at least anything stressful. And those are just animals we are familiar with. It is not an exclusively human thing and not just for those who have more complex minds.

[DavisModerator]

Belle Rose wrote:

If there is no God then why have we evolved such that our mental health improves with involving an external agency?

As for why we had a strange of believing in rediculous strange things…you cannot develop a more complex mind and have a stronger understanding of your environment and natural phenomena and your relationship with it and other people if you don’t go through a phase of incredible ignorance and wild speculation. That is spouting out arbitrary theories and answers to the unknown. There is no one around to tell you the answers and these answers aren’t coded in our DNA and God clearly didn’t feel like telling us those answers as if he did you’d find people with similar answers to phenomena all over the world. We have to fill in the missing data with made up and usually strange things that quikly become ritualistic and very DIFFICULT to change. It quickly morphs into extremely bizarre beliefs and usually with some grotesque practices some of which are very destructive. I can’t really figure out how in any evolutionary process at all…we could just jump past that step of believing in terrible explanations and suddenly be sentient fully conscious informed rational beings without a long stretch of believing in the absurd. To be honest…it demonstrates the opposite of an interfering God. If human evolution DID skip that step of believing in stupid and ignorant things and we jumped from slightly advanced primates to knowledgeable rational humans…I’d be a LOT more willing to take the God theory seriously. But we didn’t. It was all a natural process that needs no God. And no…only some humans ended up believing in a singular God or even Gods at all. Much of it is far more bizarre and crazy that you can imagine. Just go to Papua New Guines or the Amazon and hang out with some tribes for a week. Very simple natural process explains it WAY better than a whole package of strange and ignorant explanations.

• This reply was modified 7 years ago by  Davis.

[.Spectator]

@regthefronkeyfarmer

I came here because I want to CHALLENGE my beliefs. I don’t know what the fuck to do and I have no safe place to go either. So now I have nowhere and no one. bye.

[DavisModerator]

Belle Rose wrote:

It’s definitely one of the reasons that most atheists are men.

Pure ignorance. The ratio of atheist men and women in most of Continental Europe is very close. And in China (where the majority of atheists live) the ratio is also very similar.

[DianeParticipant]

Oh boy. You’ve gone and done it now, Davis.

[DavisModerator]

Belle Rose wrote:

That’s just what came to mind for now as a starting point to answer your question.

This is vague and I see no process in that text. What I can extract from it is that identifying wrong interpretations is also a subjective process.

In addition to that, having read most of the bible and listened to what some historians say the context is (for situations where we have sources) and for other cases what some people guess the context is (when lacking sources)…makes you better at identifying wrong interpretations. No?

• This reply was modified 7 years ago by  Davis.

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