Sunday School

Sunday School May 22nd 2022.

This topic contains 63 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 1 month ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 64 total)
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  • #43015

    Autumn
    Participant

    i) I wasn’t asking for a plan to criticize anything, but a plan to avoid disaster in 2024 as well as a plan for progress going forward. ii) If your plan is for the public to just stop being backward or hateful, you seem to be either trading is wishes, hopes, and dreams

    Once again proving it’s a waste of time responding to you. Even when I dumb it way the fuck down you still get lost. It was absolutely a mistake to give it another go.

    #43016

    _Robert_
    Participant

    The Dems have lost touch with a huge block of people from all walks of life who really don’t like it when anyone is marginalized. They may not be “hip” or college educated. These are not “the deplorables” or full of hate. They just wanna earn a living, maybe afford a house, have a family, some pets and some nice things. They are struggling right now, and they will decide if the rabid nationalists or the Dems come to power. If the Trumpists win, expect an impliedly sanctioned violent wave against anyone already marginalized.

    #43017

    Autumn
    Participant

    You obviously went to Davis’s school of ad hominem doom and gloom rants

    Pointing out how we are treated unfairly and unjustly and fighting for change, is an inconvenient annoying rant for Unseen.

    It might be funny if it weren’t so sad. The excuses, diminutions, and equivocation border on delusion—a sort of cowardice of the entitled, perhaps, rationalizing inaction at all costs while touting it as ‘strategy’.

    Trans rights have advanced more in the last decade through a mixture of outreach and fighting than they had in the previous four decades since Stonewall, much of it flying under the radar or waiting in the wings for gay and lesbian rights to advance or for society to unfuck itself. Right now a number of red states are drafting reactionary panic legislation, and public pressure will be one of the factors determining how successful that legislation will be.

    Meanwhile, the cis-hets cower inoffensively under their sheets, too scared to rub a middle-grounder the wrong way lest they drive them toward the place where they actually already were.

    #43018

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I think maybe there are two kinds of “trans rights” in the world, in that some are asserting the right to be who you are every day; and some are extreme (i.e., unlikely) border conditions that could clash with women’s rights.

    #43019

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Fellow Unbelievers,

    None of this has to be a false binary either/or.

    It is possible to uphold the rights of LGBTQ+ individuals and Religion-State Separation and the right to purchase and procure contraception and abortion and also pursue lower taxes, cut government spending and debt, fight domestic crime, return to old and adapt new policies of economic growth, energy production and independence, and restrengthen a strong and legitimate defense against would-be aggressors in the form of Islamofascist terrorists and Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea while also not being a world police ‘nation-builder.’

    But none of this will happen with either of the present weed crop of Democrats and Republicans. Either new party members, new parties, and/or citizen activists will have to turn things around.

    #43024

    Autumn
    Participant

    I think maybe there are two kinds of “trans rights” in the world, in that some are asserting the right to be who you are every day; and some are extreme (i.e., unlikely) border conditions that could clash with women’s rights.

    In nearly every case the clash with women’s rights is much like the way abolition, desegregation, and racial equality clashed with white rights or the way women’s suffrage and the right to work clashed with men’s rights. Heck, even atheists and secularists tend to create greater imposition on religion in defence of our rights.

    #43025

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Autumn,

    A good way to address the problems of LGBTQ+ people in schools, as well as others bullied in schools, would be if Legislators and Governors passed a “Don’t Say Or Do Compulsory Schooling” Act a.k.a. The End Government Conformity Factories Act.

    People can’t be bullied if they aren’t a captive audience, won’t stay still, and have other options for education, including not just parochial religious schools, but secular private schools and homeschools. There are several secular homeschool curricula available and with the sheer glut of information and media out there, it’s impossible not to find new ways to learn. More could adopt new ways to learn if children were’t treated as truants and parents wern’t jailed for doing so.

    Now, to address a designation you are using: While it is true that Non-Binary, Non-Heteronormative individuals exist among all groups and nations of people and all deserve acknowledgement and the same rights and responsibilities as anyone else, they also deserve the Atheist love of truth as well.

    While Non-Binary, Non-Heteronormative Indigrnous individuals exist, “Spirits,” whether One-, Two-, or any other number do not exist, M=Ikwe (M’Lady.)

    *Tips Tribal Headdress.* 🙂

    And while “Spirits” do not exist, minds do exist and people are of many minds on whether “Two-Spirit” is a proper term to use and some consider it very problematic:

    Two-Spirit–Wikipedia
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit

    I assume no ill-intent in your use of the term “Two-Spirit,” but just thought you should know more about it.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Italicizing foreign language
    #43026

    Unseen
    Participant

    @autumn and Davis

    I’m not ignoring your arguments. You are mostly just venting and venting isn’t an argument.

    It’s sad that you can’t see that tactical decisions one dislikes will be needed in order to forestall major losses.

    #43028

    Autumn
    Participant

    .

    #43029

    Autumn
    Participant

    *Tips Tribal Headdress.* 🙂 And while “Spirits” do not exist, minds do exist and people are of many minds on whether “Two-Spirit” is a proper term to use and some consider it very problematic: Two-Spirit–Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit I assume no ill-intent in your use of the term “Two-Spirit,” but just thought you should know more about it.

    My initial response was quite reactionary, so I am amending. To be frank, I am super fucking tired of people who know relatively little trying to educate me on a subject about which I happen to know a lot through both lived experience and learning. If novel insights were being provided, perhaps that would be of benefit, but it’s never the case. Once upon a time I had more patience and would hear people out at greater length, but I am exhausted by people who always want to opine yet never want to learn much of anything from someone who knows a fuck of a lot more than they do.

    Yes, I am already aware of complications surrounding the term Two-Spirit, and yet that remains a term some Indigenous people use. By saying 2SLGBTQ+ I am not insisting all Indigenous people get lumped into the 2S, but rather recognizing those who do feel alignment with the term.

    There are many terms in the initialism that are awkward or have issues. I use ‘queer’ and ‘transgender’, both of which are considered problematic by some in the so-called ‘community’. There are many oddities in the terminology surrounding sexual orientation and gender identity likely stemming from how they evolved in a language that was poorly adopted to support the conversation. Attempts to improve the language used—especially around the clunky and inexhaustive ‘2sLGBTQ+’ initialism—are often made, but momentum behind existing terminology often carries old words and terms forward. It is what it is.

    A good way to address the problems of LGBTQ+ people in schools, as well as others bullied in schools, would be if Legislators and Governors passed a “Don’t Say Or Do Compulsory Schooling” Act a.k.a. The End Government Conformity Factories Act.x

    I don’t even know where to begin on how nonsensical this is. You’re trying to address a problem when you don’t even know what the problem is.

    #43030

    Autumn
    Participant

    Fellow Unbelievers, None of this has to be a false binary either/or.

    We are on the same page here, at least.

    #43031
    #43032

    Autumn
    Participant

    Yes.

    I have never said such a thing in my life! (Or I did, but I am going to claim it’s taken out of context). Say no to life, kids; it’s only full off headaches and nonsense

    #43033

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Say no to life, kids; it’s only full off headaches and nonsense

    Cheers to that. I’ve been thinking how everything is bullshit for a minute. I am thinking more broadly about the march of folly/futility of civilization. Frustrate an idealist with the reality of the human condition and this is what happens.

    But on a personal level it aint easy. It does work ok for a few lucky ones. The universe itself is recondite and mind-bending for homo sapiens particularly those of us who reject mythology. It is not BS. But it is probably not knowable by us.

    #43034

    Autumn
    Participant

    The universe itself is recondite and mind-bending for homo sapiens particularly those of us who reject mythology. It is not BS. But it is probably not knowable by us.

    On the bright side, I’ve learned a new word today which doesn’t happen that often anymore. Recondite. Flows off the tongue nicely.

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