Old Account

[Old Account]

The first lines of the Spectator article –

“The whole aim of practical politics,’ wrote H.L. Mencken, ‘is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

Apply so many places.  Not just articles about apocalyptic views regarding purported carcinogens, or insect-apocalypse, but also about everything in politics today.  While anyone who knows me would classify me as liberal, I’m tired of both left and right wing idealogues and rabble rousers and press and narcissists, using partial facts and blown up trivial stuff to foster and fuel alarm, resentment, and “see, I told you so!”  It’s hard to know what to believe.

On the article’s focus on glyphosate, it does seem clear that the stuff doesn’t cause cancer.  I keep thinking, the cancer focus is a way to demonize the company Monsanto, but the company has done so much that is worthy of demonization – predatory practices, reducing genetic diversity, and others, we don’t need the cancer thing.  To use a (probably bad) analogy, it would be like saying you shouldn’t go to mass because the little crackers cause cancer.  Well, the Catholic Church has done plenty to be worthy of condemnation, but the little crackers don’t cause cancer.  Claiming “cancer” when it’s not true, damages credibility and is basically relying on tribalism in a way.

[Old Account]

On the horrors of religion – I wonder if it’s all a manifestation of tribalism, and such an ingrained part of the psyche of Homo sapiens that it will never be fully expunged.

Current social media – Facebook, Twitter, and others – foster like minds to unite, whereas they may have been more isolated in the past.  It seems to me that much of the intolerance and divisiviness seen today, use religion as a tool rather than the other way around.  In Nazi Germany, religion was not the central theme, it politics of resentment.  Khmer rouge didn’t seem religious based, but rather aimed toward a romanticized agrarian, utopian ideal that demonized “outside influences”.  The genocide in Rwanda was, again, politics of resentment, pitting the “aggrieved” group against the group perceived as having more privilidge, even thpugh the divisions were not always clear.  They were people who had religion, but not religion running the show.  Aztec and Inca empires were vast, but I don’t know whether religion was the perpetratorvor the tool of the ruling classes.  I agree, absolutely, that innumerable abuses have been done by religious leaders and followers, in the name of religions Cross cultures and continents, for most of history.  But what I wonder about is whether religion is the driver, or the car.

Maybe it’s not a useful point.  I don’t know.  And I think religion is a false god, legitimately labeled as an opiate of the masses (not the only one) or possibly, the hallucinogen or crystal meth of the masses.  And religion is a tool of the demogogues – not the only tool, but a big one.   But I look in dismay at all of the manifestations of tribalism today, and see religion as just one tool of tribalism.  Sometimes I see that tribalism manifested in atheist conversations too.   Which dismays me, but again, is that tribalism actually part of what it means to be Homo sapiens?

[Old Account]

I also don’t believe Jesus ever existed. I’ve read the books. Many nonbeleivers give the Jesus story the benefit of the doubt, as far as “yes there was a wise man, but no he wasn’t a diety” but I don’t see the necessity of that. We can speculate about how the various legends, stories, etc agglomerated into the story of Jesus, then was embellished by people who followed, like urban legends. But in the end, it’s an issue of there is no proof, of a story that if true would have to be provable. That the creator of the universe would have a son who he had killed then re-enlivened, then took away again, but somehow left no good evidence, but wants everyone to believe in order to be saved from the eternal punishments the creator doles out to people who have no evidence he exists, is just too psychotic even for a god.

The documentation in the bible is full of contradictions, the creator’s priorities are just plan sick, a sociopathic diety, the people who follow him pick and choose what they want to believe and follow, and there’s no reason to believe the god of the bible, over any other god.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by Old Account.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by Old Account.

[Old Account]

That Penn and Teller video was the first thing Ive ever seen about how bad the theocracy of Tibet before the Chinese dictatorship took over.  It’s like choosing your poison.  I want to read more.

 

I am troubled, however, to see that Teller has no genitals or body hair.  That poor man.

 

At one time I wanted to raise a type of Peruvian ruminant, which some people in my area do, just so I could name it Dolly Llama.  Does that make me a bad person?  🤪

[Old Account]

Apologists try to come up with all sorts of things about atheists.  The old canard about bitter atheists who are angy at god, is as old as the hills.  I’m not angry with any of the many, many gods, including the one that christians and jews claim is the only one.  It’s like being mad at a cartoon or fiction character.  It’s fiction, so nothing to be mad at.

As someone said, however, if it turned out there is a god, he has a lot of explaining to do.

@toddayoung, Im sorry to hear about your cancer diagnosis.  Six year ago I was diagnosed with sarcoma, which has been treated by surgery and the same drug (gleevec) that works for CLL – chronic myelogenous leukemia.  I don’t know if that’s what you have but if you do, the drug is tolerable. Sometimes challenging, but tolerable.  Ive taken it for 6 years with no recurrence.  It’s not always easy, but you can do it.  As for other types of leukemia  I hope you have one that is very treatable.  A lot of them are.  Science.  Medicine.  Prayer does not work.  Science and medicine keep me alive and, I hope, you too.

 

• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by Old Account.

[Old Account]

Some thoughtful reads there.  Intetesting contrarian view on renewables.

I recall reading that recycling of most materials is futile – most plastics for instance, may require more fuel to recycle, than making them from oil products.  Ditto for glass.  Plus, alot of what is sorted and saved, cant be used.

Lots more to read there!  Thanks!

 

[Old Account]

Wow, finally I got logged in!

I like this site.  Reg is a real gem, and the sunday school is worth seeing regardless of anything else.  I love it!  I like reading the other members too.

But the log on process is  very difficult for me!  I must have tried 30 times over the past few months.  I tried many times to reset my password.  Those 16 character random mixed case special character passwords?  Difficult to get right on a mobile device.   My password saver wouldnt save it.  I write it down to reenter it, but it doesnt work.  Very frustrating, and maybe a barrier to membership?   I want secure too but…   I really don’t know how I finally got in.

Maybe that’s a factor in use of the website?

I hope this device saved my last entry.  Like I said, I especially love Reg’s comments and sunday school.

I quit Nexus.  I was regular there but it’s no longer for me.  Universe is very nice, I like it very much ❤️ but there arent many members.  So I still want to read and post here too.

 

(Edited, the earlier version of this post was a little too animated 😈)

 

• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by Old Account.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by Old Account.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by Old Account.

[Old Account]

I think forgiveness means, not holding resentment or wishing harm to someone who has caused hurt.

It took me a long time to learn forgiveness.  I am still not perfect about it.  There are even some dead people who I have not forgiven, and they cant do anything to me now.  But mostly, I try to forgive bad things that people do.

I don’t think it’s healthy to hold a grudge or to resent someone.  I think it’s bad for the blood pressure, and heart health, and mental health, and other relationships.  Why lose sleep, or have higher risk for stroke or heart attack?  There might even be musculoskeletal issues, with the body having tenseness and lack of flexibility resulting from unresolved emotional injuries and betrayals.  Maybe back pain, or sprains and strains, because holding resentments might make one less agile.

So I think it’s better to let bygones be bygones.  That doesn’t mean forgetting.  People don’t usually change.  If someone has done something bad, such as taking advantage, cheating, manipulating, or lying, they will probably do it again.  So it’s important not to get burned again.  A leopard does not change its spots.

If I was close to someone, or depended on them, or thought there was a bond of some kind, or collegiality, and they turned out to be a jerk, stabbed me in the back, then I may not make that bond again.   But unless they were really vile, I won’t wish them harm either.

I think of some people as being like yellow jackets in my yard.  I don’t hate them.  I don’t resent them.  But give them a chance, I know they will sting me and I don’t like that one bit.  So I keep my distance.  I don’t hold a grudge about their prior stings.  I just don’t want more.

[Old Account]

Thanks Reg.

I loved the hoax link.  Peter Boghossian is the author of “A manual for creating atheists” but you probably already knew that.

I have never assaulted anyone, in any way.   (Quint article).  I have been assaulted in various ways, a few times over the years, sexual and not sexual, by women and men.  I wonder if anyone has not. In a puritanical society, especially among liberals, it seems like sexual assault, of women by men, trumps all other evils.  Well, except sexual assault of children by adults – which I do think is a top-10 evil thing.  I think it’s bad, and the people who assault others, female or male, younger or older, sexually, physically, or emotionally, are assholes.  But to me, sexual assault comes in all nuances, degrees, and variabilities, and does not always trump all other evils.  And, depending on tne situation and the person, sometimes we have to get over it, and sometimes the person who did it evolves into someone better than they were.  My 2 cents.

I know some atheist new agers.  It’s not important enough to me to convince anyone otherwise.  Better a little woo, than evangelical, or rabid catholic, or fundamentalist baptist, muslim, hindu, or jew.

[Old Account]

Thanks Reg for a nice list of readings.

With the RCC pretty much confirmed as a massive cult of power, hypocrisy, and sexualy depravity, ditto for conservative polititians, electorate who dont care, evangelicals and nonchristian Abrahamists just as bad…  Hindu awefulness and Buddhists proving they are no better… does humanity deserve its dominion over the planet?

[Old Account]

Awesome tatt Reg!

[Old Account]

@Strega, thank you.  You made be blush.

 

@RegTheFronkeyFarmer, Thanks Reg for the explanation.  I also agree with Ghandi, but again, I think civilization would be a good idea everywhere.  The brutality of Eastern cultures does not let them off the hook.  And subjugated, obliterated societies in the Americas (Inca, Aztec) were as brutal as the invading Christian  conquistadores, but they succumbed to disease, superior methods of warfare technology (horses, iron, ships, other weaponry).

Back to your method of street epistemology, I’m glad it works.  I think people are afraid they will look racist if they say to your face “Chinese people are immoral” but back where I grew up, they had no problem saying things like that.  Again, it depends on how we define morality.  This is from an internet dictionary definition:

n. The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct.
n.  A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct: religious morality; Christian morality.
n.  Virtuous conduct.

Back where/when I grew up, they also would not have had any problem considering the vast majority of the world to be immoral.  In fact, that was part of what made them so special.  Part of that is the idea, some thought that heaven only has space for 144,000 people.  That means that more than 7 billion go to hell.  That’s why it’s hell.  I hate crowds.

 

I also like your framing of atheist to mean “atheist with respect to ‘your’ god(s)”

 

[Old Account]

@Reg, While I’m certainly no expert, I’ve been married for 21 years to someone who grew up during the cultural revolution  in China.  I’ve been there many times, and I’ve read a number of history books about China and Chinese society.   I can say with some confidence, that people in China do have a moral code, but it’s not necessarily the same as the Christian code.  I suppose you would have to go through item by item in whatever it is that we consider the Western moral code.  In general, we are much more individualistic, regard individual rights as paramount, whereas in China, smooth running of society is more important, with less emphasis on individuality.  As for the biggie, sexual mores, I’ve seen a lot of social tolerance for infidelity, either by having affairs, and more than that, going to sex workers, for men.  Women have much more constricted expectations.  In contrast, adultery is a big, big no-no in Christianity, even though a lot of people do it, and seeing sex workers is more demonized here.  As for homosexuality, in China it seems pretty much laughed at, but is not considered the abomination worthy of death and social pariah-hood, that it is here.  In China, racism seems pretty rampant, and people don’t seem to think that is a bad thing, unlike the West where racism is rampant, but many people judge that as wrong, or at least something they know better than to talk about except among friends, family, and in-groups.  Until recently.  In our racism, of course, we think Caucasians are great, whereas in Chinese racism, they think Chinese people are great.

Much of the development of Chinese morals came from Confucianism, which emphasized the importance of conformity, social good, respect for authority, and familial prosperity and functioning.  There were elements from Taoism and Buddhism and a pantheon of gods, too.  This was distorted by Maoism and the communist takeover, profound poverty and destruction of the social fabric, now being rebuilt on new authoritarian and corporate models.

Interestingly, among Chinese people who I have encountered, despite the high degree of surface conformity, as individuals many seem to have the attitude of every person for themselves; that rules are made for breaking as long as you don’t get caught; and that someone who does something like volunteering, is kind of weird, maybe even mentally ill, and not to be respected for actually working without getting paid for it.  We tend to have more respect for people who volunteer.

Naturally, when we look at a diverse and regionally vast society, each of us is like the 9 blind men looking at the elephant, with each observing based on what they feel – one feels the leg, and thinks the elephant is like a tree, one feels the tail and thinks the elephant is like a rope, One feels the ear, and thinks the elephant is like a fan, etc.  China is a huge country, with significant regional and social variability.

Of course there’s also India, which is similar in size to China, but much of India moral code grew out of Hindu and other nonChristian traditions too.  I don’t know a lot about that.

So I would say that in China (or any other country that developed in complete absence of Abrahamic religion), there ARE social mores, and some parallel those of us in the Christian influenced West, but they are not the same and there are many variations.  comparing the 2 systems, there are different emphases, different things are considered important, and there are different implications to not meeting the moral codes of the two systems.

[Old Account]

It’s not homeopathic, but this is my favorite M &W video.  An old standard, I imagine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8-8WJxA-cI

• This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by Old Account.

[Old Account]

I suppose Christians have to trust their god.  Otherwise he will treat them like he did Job, killing their children and goats, and covering them with boils.  Trust god or else!

 

That’s funny about wearing the crucifix.  I’m glad the Romans didn’t execute by lethal injection.  Otherwise people would be wearing hypodermic needles.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by Old Account.

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