Dang Martin

[Dang Martin]

Belle Rose wrote:

@Dang I’m not answering you. You’re not worth my time. And you don’t deserve an explanation.

I’ve stayed OFF your threads, out of a minimum form of respect. When you step onto my thread, I will address you.

You have no worthy explanations, and I don’t care what you have to say. Good luck leaving Nazi Germany, and I hope that nothing horrible happens to your kids after you sell yourself to a South African husband. Good luck.

[Dang Martin]

jakelafort wrote:

1. Dang, dang, you are kinda mean, gratuituously so…

2. Does it occur to you that Belle is bonded with people here and in turn others may be bonded with her?

3. You speak for all of the members in saying she does not benefit anyone here?

4. All you do is pick with fights and declare yourself a victim? That is hyperbole.

5. Why be mean? What do you get out of it Dang?

I will be answering all of your points, and have broken it out for ease of reading.

1. I suppose one could read it with a mean tone in their own head. That’s the reader’s interpretation. I’ve had discussions with at least one Mod about behavior and best approaches. I know that they would be sending me a PM if I were being mean. And if I were being mean, truly, then I would expect to be kicked off without notice, account deleted.

2. I know she has as ton of “friends” on here. I don’t take online friends too seriously. If you’ve bonded, then that’s cool, I suppose. I don’t care who has bonded, who has not, who has been here a long time, or who is new. That does nothing in the way of moving the conversation.

3. I NEVER said that I speak for “all of the members,” and I do not know why you would make that up, or why you would even BELIEVE for one second that I was declaring that I speak for others. I don’t even claim to speak for Atheists in general, and will often note that “I can speak only for myself.” If she makes an assertion and does not support it, then it does no good. If she gets mad and says something is not true, without saying WHY it is not true, then it does no good. I was primarily asking about HER benefit, or what SHE gets out of it. From here, it seems like aggravation.

4. It has happened in more than one thread. You may not be able to see it through the “bonding.”

5. I get absolutely NOTHING out of fights, just as I get nothing out of unsupported claims and vapid platitudes. I’ve gotten lots of things from being here, such as the recent discussion that ventured into “theory of mind.”

It has nothing to do with whether or not someone agrees or disagrees, either. Here are TWO examples of waste-of-time posts that serve no purpose:

“I agree with you.”

“I disagree with you.”

In both cases, it does nothing to inform. It’s not a discussion. It’s not a case being made for or against anything. It’s agreement or disagreement, and neither do anything to move a discussion. It’s pointless.

I see nothing about what I’ve said as being a mean, personal attack, and yet you’ve felt the need to “white knight” this and turn it into something that it is not.

MODS – HERE’S THE DEAL: I know that you don’t like to sweat things like this, and have better things to do than engage in confrontations, even though you know that I am not confrontational. I’m going to go away for a while. If I come back, and I can login, then I will stay. If I cannot login, then I will “take the hint” and go away.

Assertions are cheap and VERY easy to make. The hard part is backing it up. In keeping with the topic of the thread, NOBODY has ever seen a prayer be answered. Never. If they did, then they must prove it. But then it falls back onto the problem that the supernatural world cannot be proven.

[Dang Martin]

Belle Rose wrote:

So fuck it. Why bother.

And yet, you’re bothering, for some mysterious reason.

[Dang Martin]

Belle Rose wrote:

….so no need to try to convince anyone that it’s real.

You’re right. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. I’m not going to pour my heart out to have it dragged through the mud. Deal with it.

Then there is a serious question that must be answered.

What the hell are you doing here? What are your goals? What do you get out of this? How does it benefit YOU? It certainly doesn’t benefit me, or anyone here. You should care about the honest answer to those questions.

All you do is pick fights and then declare yourself a victim. I don’t know what anyone gets out of that.

[Dang Martin]

Belle Rose wrote:

I have seen prayer work. But I’m sure you’ll disagree

How can I disagree, when you’ve provided nothing for this conversation, including nothing for your own argument.

When did you see it work?

What happened?

How do you know that a supernatural being intervened?

How do you know WHICH supernatural being intervened?

How do you know that satan wasn’t just tricking you?

Coincidence?

How do you know that the prayer you saw answered was not something that was going to happen or not happen anyway?

I could look back on the good and bad things in my recent experiences, and then make ALL of them appear to have been prayers answered. For the good stuff, god answered my prayers, loves me, and has a plan. For the bad stuff, god felt he should challenge me, or maybe he “works in mysterious ways.”

It’s easy:

1. Describe the situation

2. How do you feel about it?

3. Apply a small set of MAGIC 8 BALL answers. Just pick one. Whichever one you want. Doesn’t matter.

At the very least, you could try. So far, you’ve not made a very good argument in favor of your god.

Your god is a Magic 8 Ball in your own head. Nobody else can see it. It has you entertained, and that is all that really matters, so no need to try to convince anyone that it’s real.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by Dang Martin.

[Dang Martin]

That’s one reason why I’m here. I have no idea on what it is that “we” agree about, beyond the idea that there does not seem to be a good reason to belief in any gods, regardless of whether or not they are commercially-available for purchase. The other reason is to be as offensive as possible, or so I’ve heard.

I probably told the story before about the Buddhist guy who was chanting for weed. He’d chant every morning, and get his weed. But one day, he got nothing. Chanted harder, and nothing. He asked his Lion Hahn about it, and the response was, “You did not get your weed, because the Universe does not feel that this would be good for you.”

One red bean stuck in the bottom of a tin bowl
Hot coffee from a crimped up can
Me ‘n my girl named Bimbo
Limbo
Spam

[Dang Martin]

Someone told me that they find comfort in the idea that our brains can be “backed up” into a computer.

Unless it’s moved, then it is only being copied, which suggests that the original is still slated to die.

[Dang Martin]

Davis wrote:

Please be careful with this kind of talk. People get in big trouble for suggesting someone kill anyone…let alone a political figure.

In the 90s, I was a regular at the gun range and this guy [also a regular] had some home-made Bill Clinton pistol range targets. He offered me one for free, but I declined.

He abruptly was not seen at the range for about a month. When he made it back, he had an interesting story about how he came home to find his front door open. Everything he owned was overturned, cut open, destroyed. And there was a business card with a number, if he wanted to “turn himself in.”

He said that he was interrogated for several hours, before they figured out that he was not a threat. He somehow got his guns returned.

As he told me, “That target idea was a stupid, stupid idea.”

[Dang Martin]

This thread went all over the place, but that’s okay because it opens the floor to more things. Besides, it’s just a thread. No big whoop.

When it comes to a college education, it’s important to remember that “Ds get degrees.” My aunt went to college for six years to get her Master’s in Political Science, and she’s not even the best waitress at Denny’s.

If I had had a choice between two ridiculous and extreme scenarios, I’d have to take some time to seriously question my view of the world, and why I’d even want to suggest that as a reality. Why not two extremely positive scenarios? Why can’t I choose between my harem feeding me grapes, and my harem rubbing my feet? Why not BOTH? Then you can get slapped around AND starve to death at the same time. What a world!

Mental illness in the West has its unique qualities. In the Western world, the “voices” in people’s heads tend to suggest violence, such as Baby Jesus telling someone to put a baby in an oven because it is “of the devil.” But in other African and Indian cultures, the voices can be more benign, or maybe even playful [source].

Western culture is a constant bullhorn of advertising and the quest to gain attention. It’s at just about every turn. For several years, as I shopped for a new television, I would ask myself, “How much money am I willing to spend so that advertisers can have the privilege of putting things in my face?”

That can get tiring, which is why it’s important to have silence. 10-15 minutes is good, although I prefer 20-30 minutes. No phone or anything. Just alone in the quiet, with my thoughts. It can be difficult at first, but facing the beasts in that silence gets easier the more it is done.

If someone were to attack me in my home, I would not consider the act of taking their life to be “murder,” based on intent. I do think there are people who might view this differently, and who may even suggest that one “turn the other cheek.”

If common sense were common, then the movers would have done a better job with the furniture and these boxes.

I think that there are cultural pressures to determine right from wrong, but perspective is also important.

Within the context of the subject, a home invasion occurs, and I kill the intruder. From my perspective, I got lucky and get to live another day. From the perspective of the average person, they may view this as a bad story with the best outcome possible.

But for the family of the person who was killed, they may have different feelings about it. They could be of the position that this family member was ALWAYS a problem, and maybe he had this coming. Others might be upset and show up to court with his baby pictures, because this is how they will always see him. To them, it might be considered a senseless killing or a murder. But I had no intent to murder anyone when I was awoken from my slumber.

If I had to pick between fire ants in my bum and bleeding sores in my throat…. wait, WHO is giving me these choices again? This game stinks!

People will get mentally triggered by different things. For me, there was a time when a certain type of phrase would set me off:

“OMG, Jerry spent almost 90 minutes cleaning the kitchen. He’s like, totally OCD.”

If somebody says or writes something that sets you off, the first thing you have to do is figure out why. This was upsetting to me, as someone who has been dealing with OCD, because there is a BIG difference between being overly-tidy, and washing your hands so much that you might not even be able to leave the house that day.

Then, it is important to figure out intent. Was that person trying to upset me with their OCD comment? Probably not. Do they even know that I’m dealing with this? Definitely not.

After that, dismiss it. Part of being an adult means disabling those triggers. Spending one’s day getting angry at every person who sets you off is a waste of a life. You will not get a safe space.

I suspect that my use of “Baby Jesus” is upsetting to some. They should consider writing that off. And DO NOT drive around during Christmas, because you might see a nativity scene, which prominently features a Baby Jesus, right in the middle. I kid you not.

Good and bad can also rely heavily on perspective. In a realistic scenario, suppose that you work for a company that has been growing so quickly that your organization is now top-heavy with executives, as well as their friend who were given jobs where they do nothing. The end of the year is coming up, meaning that they want the books to look good, the investors want good news, and the executives want raises.

So the company announces NO holiday bonuses for the year. Instead, they give you a talk about “the fog of war,” after handing you a copy of “Who Moved My Cheese?” The foggy war speech ends with a talk about how 30% of the staff has been cut, and the survivors will have to take a 5% cut in pay while picking up the slack.

I call this scenario “realistic” because I worked at a place that did this.

If you are a WORKER, regardless of whether you got down-sized or got a raw deal with the pay cut and work load increase, you would see this as a BAD thing. You might even call it immoral. How DARE they do this, just to make their numbers look good, and for their bonuses?

But if you are an EXECUTIVE or a STOCK HOLDER, then you will see this as a good thing. Your investment has improved. Your bonus is fat. You sleep very well at night with no concern about the people whose lives were potentially destroyed.

So WHAT’S IN IT FOR ME if I kill a home intruder? I get to live. A good thing in Western civilization?

Kill a person for their wallet? I get whatever money they have in their wallet or purse, or maybe just receives. A bad thing in Western Civilization.

I saw a man shoot another man to death for the horrible crime of looking at him. Yes, there are primates out there just like this. Also a bad thing in Western Civilization.

Killing someone you love, because you love them, and because it’s what they’ve expressed that they would want, has typically been considered a bad thing in Western Culture. However, some states are now adopting “Right to Die” laws that may prevent these types of dilemmas. People can now make this decision, and take advantage of this service, should the proper time come.

For me, if I had something horrible and incurable, such as End Stage Renal Failure, where the pain becomes most significant, I think that would be a good time to check out. The pain killers aren’t working, and I’m just suffering until I die, so why not?

And yet, there are “moral Christians” out there who are against a person’s individual decision to take their own life. They say that “all life is sacred,” as they work to force their “morality” upon others.

Maybe it’s because they believe that suffering is essential. Maybe it’s because they follow their bible and believe that killing yourself is a mortal sin that lands a person in hell. Why they’d care about a heathen sinner like me, I have no clue.

But it is a case of them forcing their own morality onto others.

For me, I don’t see killing myself as a bad thing, or something that is wrong, when I consider the conditions that make it right for me. It’s not about feeling sad and offing myself. It’s a serious decisions. It’s also nobody else’s business.

For those who are concerned, no, I am not suicidal.

The strangest thing to me is that Christians has so much fear about death, even though they supposedly believe that they will be in a blissful Heaven for all of eternity. There could be a situation, in that they “believe” in a way where they go through the motions, go to church twice per year [if that], and don’t read their bible, and the consideration of death brings them fear, like a school child who knows they have a test in an hour, and that they did not read their chapters the night before.

This would cause me to question whether or not belief in a god or the practice of a religion actually does anything to alleviate a person’s fear of death. Certainly, if I believe that an option would be eternal damnation and suffering in the fires of hell, I might have some fear, especially when dealing with a judgmental, flippant, angry, and emotional god who behaves like Donald Trump.

I don’t know what will happen when I die, but I have my suspicions, in that being dead could be similar to my experience from before I was born. Was it dark? Was I afraid?

No. And even though it lasted for billions of years, it felt like the blink of an eye.

That’s why, for me, I don’t know and I don’t care. As for killing others, I do think that context should matter, but I know that it does not.

[Dang Martin]

David Boots wrote:

But if you think you made the wrong decisions do you now think you could go back in time and make a better decision. Probably not.

With my grandmother’s situation, the one requiring the active decision, I think that I was in a place where the right decision was impossible, because my son’s presence was the wild card. It came down to either killing grandma and not getting to be my son’s father, OR the path that I chose.

Since grandma was on her way out, and my son had just arrived, I think it was the best decision. Still feel that I let grandma down. In our society, I had to pick one.

[Dang Martin]

Ah, yes. People do say things.

[Dang Martin]

JadeBlackOlive wrote:

I’ve heard it many times the words should be…… shalt not ”murder”.

It might depend on which version of the bible is reference.

For King James Version, the most popular version in America, in Exodus 20:13 – Thou shalt not kill.

The source below also references non-English versions, and gets into some points about this, which is apparently some kind of controversy. I think if a god wants to say something, then it should try to be a little bit more clear.

I rarely discuss or debate the bible, because most Christians have actually read the book, so it becomes a waste of time.

While I do wonder what this Christian god Yahweh would think about it if I exercised mercy upon the life of my beloved grandmother, I do not have any big concerns about what a mythological deity would actually thing. It’s curiosity more than anything else, and wondering how others perceive this.

================

[source] Regarding Exodus 20:13, not only does the King James Bible read “Thou shalt not kill” but so also do Tyndale 1534 (he translated Exodus before his death), Coverdale 1535, The Great Bible 1540 – “Thou shalt not kyll.”, Matthew’s Bible 1549, Bishops’ Bible 1568, the Geneva Bible 1599, the Douay-Rheims of 1610, Webster’s translation 1833, the Longman Version 1841, the Brenton Bible 1851, Lesser Bible 1853, the Smith Bible 1876, The Revised English Bible 1877, the Sharpe Bible 1883, Darby 1890, the American Standard Version 1901, The Ancient Hebrew Bible 1907 – “Thou shalt not KILL.”, The Improved Bible 1913, Lamsa’s 1933 translation of the Syriac Peshitta – “You shall not KILL.”, the 1936 Hebrew Publishing Company version, the Catholic Douay 1950, the Revised Standard Version 1952, the New Life Version 1969, the St. Joseph New American Bible 1970, the Updated Bible Version 2003 – “You shall not KILL.”, The Word of Yah 1993, the KJV 21st Century Version 1994, Green’s Modern KJV 1998, the Third Millennium Bible 1998, God’s First Truth 1999 “you shall not KILL”, the Heritage Bible 2003, The Complete Apostle’s Bible by Paul Espositio 2005 – “You shall not KILL.”, The Revised Geneva Bible 2005, the Context Group Version 2007, Hebraic Transliteration Scripture 2010, The Work of God’s Children Illustrated Bible 2011, the brand new critical text Common English Bible of 2011 – “Do not KILL.”, The New Brenton Translation 2012 – “You shall not KILL.”, The Bond Slave Version 2012, The Revised Douay-Rheims Bible 2012, and the Katapi New Standard Bible 2012 – “You shall not KILL.”

[Dang Martin]

Now I wonder why so many American “Christians” own guns, and are all about “stand your ground.”

When I hear that “Jesus would not raise a fist,” I cannot help but imagine him with a double-edged sword coming out of his mouth. I know, the mouth is not a fist.

[Dang Martin]

News story: God tells a woman to stab her 8-day-old baby in the eye because it was created “by the devil.”

[Dang Martin]

I will usually go with “sorry for your loss” and stop there. Otherwise, I may head into “how ’bout then Dodgers?” territory.

[Author]

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