Is the US officially a fascist country yet?

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This topic contains 134 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 1 hour, 59 minutes ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 135 total)
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  • #35975

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    PopeBeanie,

    That’s just one example of a boatload of unhinged assumptions. The post, overall, emotionally, it sounds like you’re channeling Trump! Are you ok?

    I’m not sure where you get that.  Neither Donald Trump nor anyone in polotics today supports applying free market principles to medicine.

    There are far better ways of getting affordable health care to people of all income levels than single-payer government-provided socialized medicine.  Recall, this is the same outfit that brought us the Post Office and the DMV.  Do you really want that kind of performance with your medicine?

    #35976

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    In the UK we pay for the NHS with taxes and national insurance (another tax).  It may be a public institution, but because it deals with human suffering/welfare/saving life, it’s very efficient.

    #35977

    _Robert_
    Participant

    PopeBeanie,

    That’s just one example of a boatload of unhinged assumptions. The post, overall, emotionally, it sounds like you’re channeling Trump! Are you ok?

    I’m not sure where you get that. Neither Donald Trump nor anyone in polotics today supports applying free market principles to medicine. There are far better ways of getting affordable health care to people of all income levels than single-payer government-provided socialized medicine. Recall, this is the same outfit that brought us the Post Office and the DMV. Do you really want that kind of performance with your medicine?

    Sounds superficially good. How about reality? If you hand over the keys to the boardroom their first priority is to monopolize, take advantage of the economies of scale, skirt well-meaning safety regulation, manipulate supply and demand as well as stock valuations, buy political favors and crush the so called ‘free market’. Shall we fill up 10,000 pages of white space with real life examples? Certainly you realize that my perceived freedoms may trample yours and we need enforceable arbitration. I have noticed a recurring theme; Libertarians offers tons of bitchin’ but little resolution.

    #35978

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    The US health care system is run for greed and profit.  The NHS is run for people.  @theencogitationer, I think you’re imagining health care from the godawful US perspective.

    #35979

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Simon,

    If the UK NHS is so good, why were there banners to “Save the NHS”  during the ongoing COVID-19 crisis?  Wasn’t the NHS originally sold to the people as a savior, not something that needed saving?

    My Doctor doesn’t jump into my arms screaming: “Save me!  Save me!”

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 15 hours ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling. I practice self-care on that
    • This reply was modified 5 days, 15 hours ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Punctuation triage
    #35982

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Robert,

    Sounds superficially good. How about reality? If you hand over the keys to the boardroom their first priority is to monopolize, take advantage of the economies of scale, skirt well-meaning safety regulation, manipulate supply and demand as well as stock valuations, buy political favors and crush the so called ‘free market’. Shall we fill up 10,000 pages of white space with real life examples? Certainly you realize that my perceived freedoms may trample yours and we need enforceable arbitration. I have noticed a recurring theme; Libertarians offers tons of bitchin’ but little resolution.

    What about the way the “G-Men,T-Men, and Revinooers too” from the BATFE and FDA were trying to go after distilleries for re-gearing their facilities to produce hand sanitizer to help in the fight against COVID-19?

    What about the way authorities in New York were hogging up the Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) and ventilators and keeping them from the general public?

    You know, the free market solution is to simply get out of the way and let manufacturers produce more, which is how we get anything in life.

    #35983

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    why were there banners to “Save the NHS” during the ongoing COVID-19 crisis?

    Because of the COVID crisis.  It’s enough to potentially overwhelm any system, no matter how good.

    #35988

    Davis
    Moderator

    Encoginator, we’ve told you before that the problem with the NHS isn’t the system itself…it is conservative governments (filled with people with a mentality like yours) who is not properly funding the system (to fund tax cuts for the rich). This is demonstrably the case as the conservative government made notable tax cuts and didn’t increase NHS spending along with inflation. The system would be totally fine if a sociopathic government wasn’t in place not properly funding a system the people need AND making torturous cuts to social programs (like homeless shelters). Basically it almost looks like the UK conservative government wants to emulate the cruel practices in many US states where social assistance is minimal and…gosh darn it wouldn’t you know…England is now suffering the same social problems that come along with these cuts like higher poverty, higher crime and social disruption. What a shock! Meanwhile in Scotland where they have some devolved powers, they are properly funding programs and they aren’t dealing with the same level of problems. The moral:

    If you prefer being a cruel sociopathic society leaving people to die from simple health issues or the homeless to rot in the gutter and marginalised people living in abject poverty (people to fend for themselves)…then you will pay a very high social cost, higher levels of crime and disfunction and most of your government programs will suffer. Basically…its the cost of having a stupid sociopathic “each one for themselves” ideology.

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 10 hours ago by  Davis.
    #35990

    Davis
    Moderator

    Basically when I see the level of people not being covered by their insurance (out of technicalities), getting billed for shit they shouldn’t, bankrupting families, private companies making a killing (out of doing virtually nothing except administering paper work and not paying a portion of the bills they should cover), some doctors making obscene salaries while some nurses making a poverty wage, people dying from not being able to afford their insulin, people actually having LITTLE choice which hospitals or clinics they visit (because their insurance does or doesn’t allow it) etc. I see a super dysfunctional system. It:

    • Costs a LOT more than countries which have centralised health care and cover everyone
    • Millions of people aren’t covered and pointlessly suffer because of it
    • People will the least means have to pay the most
    • The winners are private interests who engage in all sorts of grossly unethical conduct to make a little extra money (playing with peoples lives including pointless deaths in the process)

    And people keep acting as though a few bandaids will solve this? Laugh my fucking ass off. It’s like a stubborn kid who keeps trying to half-hazardly solve a problem while EVERYONE ELSE is doing it find with the solution, and yet the stubborn kid refuses to believe the tested solution that works…won’t work for him (because he’s being told by selfish people with economic interests not to use that system). I’m glad I don’t live in America. Zheesh.

    #35991

    Unseen
    Participant

    If you prefer being a cruel sociopathic society leaving people to die from simple health issues or the homeless to rot in the gutter and marginalised people living in abject poverty (people to fend for themselves)…then you will pay a very high social cost, higher levels of crime and disfunction and most of your government programs will suffer. Basically…its the cost of having a stupid sociopathic “each one for themselves” ideology.

    The unspoken but obvious conservative motto: “The inferior must not be allowed to survive.” It’s a silent doctrine of social Darwinism according to which people get what they deserve. It’s karma, only in this life, not the next one.

    #35992

    _Robert_
    Participant

    If you prefer being a cruel sociopathic society leaving people to die from simple health issues or the homeless to rot in the gutter and marginalised people living in abject poverty (people to fend for themselves)…then you will pay a very high social cost, higher levels of crime and disfunction and most of your government programs will suffer. Basically…its the cost of having a stupid sociopathic “each one for themselves” ideology.

    The unspoken but obvious conservative motto: “The inferior must not be allowed to survive.” It’s a silent doctrine of social Darwinism according to which people get what they deserve. It’s karma, only in this life, not the next one.

    For years I used to think this was a just an unfortunate side effect of free society. A relatively small price to pay for efficiency. Not to worry because ‘charity’ will step in and fill the need. I never understood the depth of  the “us and them” divide. It has now become obvious, this silent doctrine.

    #35993

    Unseen
    Participant

    For years I used to think this was a just an unfortunate side effect of free society. A relatively small price to pay for efficiency. Not to worry because ‘charity’ will step in and fill the need. I never understood the depth of  the “us and them” divide. It has now become obvious, this silent doctrine.

    Look no further than Sen. Manchin of West Virginia, a Democrat believe it or not, who may hold up the $2000 stimulus checks saying he’d rather the money went to prop up businesses than people or devote the money to infrastructure projects, and if it goes to people, it should be means tested beyond the $75,000 income limit. He’s afraid, he says, that many people will just save it rather than spending it (“many people”? really?). Many Americans are 7 or more months behind on rent and mortgages and he, a rich man who gets $15,000/mo for his post in Congress, wants to fiddle fart away a few more months on hearings to set up a more elaborate disbursement system.

    As for charity, there’s so much demand that food banks are turning people away who didn’t get in line before 3 a.m.

     

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 7 hours ago by  Unseen.
    #35995

    jakelafort
    Participant

    The efficiency of the free market?

    It went well for the masses before labor unions. It gave Dickens some nice material. Free markets are decidedly superior to any alternative in concentrating wealth in the hands of the few. Suffering bastards become less affordable to many but a namesake of too many. If one is lacking health what has one got? That one aint got squat! ought we make a change? Not if we are deranged. Insuring all Americans is tantamount to trick laws. Allow hatred to flourish. Its words and expression nourish the unquenchable need for freedom of speech…so onward into the breech.

    Say yes to ideology. Say yes to rigidity. Encourage boundless stupidity without timidity.

    #35996

    _Robert_
    Participant

    The efficiency of the free market? It went well for the masses before labor unions. It gave Dickens some nice material. Free markets are decidedly superior to any alternative in concentrating wealth in the hands of the few. Suffering bastards become less affordable to many but a namesake of too many. If one is lacking health what has one got? That one aint got squat! ought we make a change? Not if we are deranged. Insuring all Americans is tantamount to trick laws. Allow hatred to flourish. Its words and expression nourish the unquenchable need for freedom of speech…so onward into the breech. Say yes to ideology. Say yes to rigidity. Encourage boundless stupidity without timidity.

    You have a way with words, Jake. Of course being early January, this came to mind, LOL.

    “Are there no prisons?” asked Scrooge.

    “Plenty of prisons,” said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

    “And the Union workhouses?” demanded Scrooge. “Are they still in operation?”

    “They are. Still,” returned the gentleman, “I wish I could say they were not.”

    “The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?” said Scrooge.

    “Both very busy, sir.”

    “Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,” said Scrooge. “I’m very glad to hear it.”

    #35997

    jakelafort
    Participant

    We are so scrooged!

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